The Swiss don't like minarets

Originally Posted by soicky

Islam is not a person. It's a religion which is followed by 1 billion people. How many of the 1 billion would have to speak out?

Many muslims have spoken out about the extremists who use Islam for their own purpose. Maybe you should do your own research and find out.

speaking out isn't good enough ,names, addresses put them infront of the congregation at the local mosque and tell them they are wrong ,kick them out of the religion ,that would be better

[soicky]

Originally Posted by martyh

speaking out isn't good enough ,names, addresses put them infront of the congregation at the local mosque and tell them they are wrong ,kick them out of the religion ,that would be better

You can't kick someone out of a religion. It's not a political party.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by soicky

Your assuming Islam has leaders. Who might these leaders be?

google it if your actually interested - i personaly think you just want to argue .

[soicky]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

google it if your actually interested - i personaly think you just want to argue .

It's called a debate. Your the one who assumed Islam had leaders so now I'm asking you to back that up with facts.

Originally Posted by papa smurf

google it if your actually interested - i personaly think you just want to argue .

Islam doesn't have a (mortal) figurehead as far as I know. I would be interested if you could come up with a list of such people/institutions who are to Islam what the Pope/Vatican is to the Catholic Church. Although even the Pope is not recognised as the head of the Catholic church by many Catholics. Further showing that religion is a shared belief, which itself is often debated, rather than a club or party which screens it's members.

So I don't know what you want them to do.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by soicky

It's called a debate. Your the one who assumed Islam had leaders so now I'm asking you to back that up with facts.

how about if you know something just post it -i don't claim to be an expert on any religion, so if you do know anything on the structure of islam please post it and save hours of worthless bickering.

[TheDaddy]

The used to have a Chaliphate Damien but he is long gone. There is am organisation that replaced him called the OIC which wields a bit of power in Muslim countries.

Originally Posted by soicky

You can't kick someone out of a religion. It's not a political party.

erm ,yes you can ...ever heard of excommunication ,now i know this does not apply in islam but terrorist offences could be classed amongst the "unforgivable sins" in the islam religion and therefore the offender is said to have abandoned islam which would have the same result
for someone who is deeply religious (in the case of muslims for example)having the leader/elder/imam of the local mosque tell you are wrong in you're beliefs will make a big difference

[soicky]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

perhaps Islam should concentrate on building a few bridges [starting with rooting out radicals] then may be they might find others more accommodating,i think there is a lot of fear of Islam in the world brought about by a few organizations hell bent on conflict.

Originally Posted by papa smurf

a good starting place would be to condemn the nutters and disassociate themselves from them ,and to be seen to be doing it on a world wide scale , that's just a thought .

Originally Posted by papa smurf

i assume this religion has leaders and when leaders speak others follow
an example of this in another religion is[ the pope says don't do this ]and millions of Catholics obey.

Originally Posted by papa smurf

how about if you know something just post it -i don't claim to be an expert on any religion, so if you do know anything on the structure of islam please post it and save hours of worthless bickering.

You said "Islam should concentrate on building a few bridges" since Islam has no leader how do you expect this to be done apart from muslims speaking out which doesn't make headlines or people would rather not see it.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

The used to have a Chaliphate Damien but he is long gone. There is am organisation that replaced him called the OIC which wields a bit of power in Muslim countries.

found this on the web -re o i c


In 1999 OIC adopted the OIC Convention on Combating International Terrorism.[22] Human Rights Watch has noted that the definition of terrorism in article 1 as “any act or threat of violence carried out with the aim of, among other things, imperiling people’s honour, occupying or seizing public or private property, or threatening the stability, territorial integrity, political unity or sovereignty of a state� is vague and ill-defined, and includes much that is outside the generally accepted understandings of the concept of terrorism. In HRW's view, it labels, or could easily be used to label, as terrorist actions, acts of peaceful expression, association and assembly.[23]

Legal scholar Ben Saul of University of Sydney argues that the definition is subjective and ambiguous and concludes that there is “serious danger of the abusive use of terrorist prosecutions against political opponents� and others.[24]

Furthermore, HRW is concerned by OIC’s apparent unwillingness to recognise as terrorism acts that serve causes endorsed by their member states. Article 2 reads: “Peoples’ struggle including armed struggle against foreign occupation, aggression, colonialism, and hegemony, aimed at liberation and self-determination.� HRW has suggested to OIC that they embrace “longstanding and universally recognised international human rights standards�[23] – a request that has as yet not led to any results.

Contradictions between OIC's and other U.N. member’s understanding of terrorism has stymied efforts at the U.N. to produce a comprehensive convention on international terrorism.[25]

On a meeting in Malaysia in April 2002, delegates discussed terrorism, but failed to reach a definition of it. They rejected, however, any description of the Palestinian fight with Israel with terrorism. Their declaration was explicit: "We reject any attempt to link terrorism to the struggle of the Palestinian people in the exercise of their inalienable right to establish their independent state with Al-Quds Al-Shrif (Jerusalem) as its capital." In fact, at the outset of the meeting, the OIC countries signed a statement praising the Palestinians and their "blessed intifada." The word terrorism was restricted to describe Israel, whom they condemned for "state terrorism" in their war with the Palestinian people.[26]

At the 34th Islamic Conference of Foreign Ministers (ICFM), an OIC section, in May 2007, the foreign ministers termed Islamophobia the worst form of terrorism.[27]

[soicky]

Originally Posted by martyh

erm ,yes you can ...ever heard of excommunication ,now i know this does not apply in islam but terrorist offences could be classed amongst the "unforgivable sins" in the islam religion and therefore the offender is said to have abandoned islam which would have the same result
for someone who is deeply religious (in the case of muslims for example)having the leader/elder/imam of the local mosque tell you are wrong in you're beliefs will make a big difference

They may not be welcome in the local mosque but no doubt if they are extremists than they will continue to practice their way of Islam to suit their own agenda.

Originally Posted by Damien

Islam doesn't have a (mortal) figurehead as far as I know. I would be interested if you could come up with a list of such people/institutions who are to Islam what the Pope/Vatican is to the Catholic Church. Although even the Pope is not recognised as the head of the Catholic church by many Catholics. Further showing that religion is a shared belief, which itself is often debated, rather than a club or party which screens it's members.

So I don't know what you want them to do.

Ayatollah,Mullah/Mawlana These are usually considered leaders of the islam religion although as you said there is no one single leader

---------- Post added at 17:40 ---------- Previous post was at 17:35 ----------

Originally Posted by soicky

They may not be welcome in the local mosque but no doubt if they are extremists than they will continue to practice their way of Islam to suit their own agenda.

yes they will, but without the backing of the religion they are blowing people up for so even for other Muslims that will make them just common murderers and not martyrs which they crave

Originally Posted by punky

Normally because whenever someone does there will always be people to jump up and attack them for it.

I did consider starting the thread myself or even replying in this thread, but its just really isn't worth the aggro.

he says in a reply lol

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by martyh

yes they will, but without the backing of the religion they are blowing people up for so even for other Muslims that will make them just common murderers and not martyrs which they crave

True. what they do is in the name of the religion.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

Isn't it great, we have another country with the bottle to make a stand against such things, France want the viel banned, so that the females face can be seen, and now this, This country doesn't have the bottle to say anything in case it offends the Muslim faith.