Newsgroup Activity Tracking

Raistlin · 23-10-2009, 15:44

Ok, so.....we know that people occasionally use the torrent system to download naughty things (these people are in the minority obviously, because everybody I ask only downloads Linux distributions.....). I have no experience of Newsgroups, but I would imagine (by extension of the principle, and factoring in human nature) that similar nefarious activities occur within the newsgroup user community.

There are sections of the 'Establishment', and also some commercial organisations, that seek to stamp out these naughty file downloading practices and who (if we are to believe the popular press) have tracked individuals down through their association with the torrent sites, or through their ISP giving information about their browsing habits.

So.....the question.....and there's no pretext/motive behind it other than that I would like to know the answer.....

Are there any mechanisms present in the newsgroup system of uploading/downloading that would protect the identities of these nefarious (and undoubtedly very naughty people) that are not present in the torrent system? How easy is it to track who's downloaded what from a given server for example? How difficult would it be for your ISP to find out what you'd been downloading? If 'the man' got his hands on a naughty file sharing newsgroup server would he be able to trace these undesireables easily? Do the newsgroup server owners know who these naughty people are?

dev · 23-10-2009, 16:00

Depends if the newsgroup server owners keep logs on what people downloaded. If they do, and "the man" gets access to the logs then you'll be in trouble. I image it'll be worse than the torrent system as with newsgroups there are payments to be made and so name/address info stored for you. If "the man" gets the logs they'll no doubt have account info and your name/address where as with the torrent system they'll only have an IP address and a guess that you're downloading.

The upside to newsgroups is that you only download so you may be less of a target, much easier to stop the content appearing (by targeting the uploaders) as if there is no content no one can download anything.

Kymmy · 23-10-2009, 16:13

Newsgroups tend to offer SSL these days so ISP's although they would know that you were accessing a news server would have major problems telling what you were downloading..

Most usenet providers do not log as they're not ISP's and under current laws do not need to..

The main difference though as you mention p2p is that with usenet you're downloading from a single point that is not currently accesable by copyright agents, where as P2P get you as they seek out individualpeople sharing the file/partfile..

SnoopZ · 23-10-2009, 16:19

You don't share (upload what you download) when using Newsgroups.

The only connection is between you and the newsgroup provider ie astraweb or similar and this could be SSL encrypted.

So unless the newsgroup provider is keeping logs which i currently don't think they do or they have been infiltrated by the 'dark side' i think they're currently safe.

Newsgroups are by far the best way to get all those linux distros as you get them at the speed your connection allows, the only downside is it might cost a few Â£s.

[edit]

Kymmy beat me to it!

v0id · 23-10-2009, 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnoopZ

You don't share (upload what you download) when using Newsgroups.

Some people don't share (upload what you download) when using torrents either

Kymmy · 23-10-2009, 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by v0id

Some people don't share (upload what you download) when using torrents either

Very few P2P block thier uploads, and most P2P programs share by default

SnoopZ · 23-10-2009, 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kymmy

Very few P2P block thier uploads, and most P2P programs share by default

And you can never trust where the torrent originates from.

punky · 23-10-2009, 17:32

Chuffing hell Rob you scared me there for a moment.

As others have said most newsgroups offer SSL. This (I think) will withstand the Deep Packet Inspection they use on torrents. The only way they'd know is if they managed to subpoena the newsgroup server's logs and they contained something. Also people need .nzb files (pointers to content on newsgroups) but again these can be SSL as well.

Also by design newsgroups are a direct connection between the server and user. Torrents by design spray data out to everyone else utilising the torrent at the time which can be companies hired by content providers.

Also its a small but important distinction: Everyone so far has been done for sharing (i.e. re-uploading/making available) a copy of the copyrighted works. This doesn't happen with newsgroups (except for the initial release usually done by groups with secure proxies).

v0id · 23-10-2009, 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kymmy

Very few P2P block thier uploads, and most P2P programs share by default

There are quite a few mods out there to well known torrent applications that have a No Upload option, or a fake upload option

xpod · 23-10-2009, 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnoopZ

Snip

Newsgroups are by far the best way to get all those linux distros as you get them at the speed your connection allows, the only downside is it might cost a few Â£s.
snip

I can get my Linux ISO`s as fast as the connection allows from torrents and from http, with a little help from a decent download manager and a Virgin mirror. Thats without it costing any extra Â£Â£Â£.
I dont download enough of anything else to warrant paying for decent newsgroup access mind you.