[Update] BNP on Question Time this week

[Flyboy]

Does anyone have a reliable link? I don't seem to be able to open the one on Wikileaks.

Seems like the BNP might put their foot in it on Question Time:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8317353.stm

Alluding to the Generals being Nazis and mentioning their hanging? Way to be concerned about the Army

[Russ]

All this week I'm staying at Kym's place in Leicester and am enjoying her company but seriously I have to make sure I watch QT this week, I get the feeling it's going to be a classic

In all seriousness, it would be very interesting to get her perspective on this whole BNP thing. How does it feel to be accused of not being properly British?

[Osem]

I'll give you my wife's perspective on it if you like. She's white and has been a British citizen for quite a few years now but was born in one of the more recent EU entry countries. She's always been conscious of being different especially when she speaks and her accent is evident. In recent years of course accents similar to hers have become far more common but when she first came here she felt a very obvious foreigner as people always commented on her accent and where she came from in one way or another. She has a pragmatic view on the subject as in her home country foreigners/ethnic minorities have traditionally been treated with suspicion and even hatred. I guess it's for this reason that hearing others say that people like her shouldn't be here isn't nice but doesn't bother her unduly. She knows and is proud of her roots, had made her choices and doesn't feel at all apologetic for doing so but does feel very grateful for being given that chance and is proud to be a British citizen.

Although she's felt very aware of her accent she'll tell you that she's never felt the victim of any real discrimination. Quite the reverse in fact, she finds the fact that she's been able to enjoy free educational courses and healthcare in the UK from the day she arrived here quite remarkable. Conversely, she felt very awkward when on my first trip to her country and we booked into a hotel, I was forced to pay a higher rate for my room than she was purely for being foreign! All in all, she's very happy to be here and feels this country has been very kind to her over the years. The fact that so many of her friends have come here and done similar would seem to bear out her experience.

Originally Posted by Osem

I'll give you my wife's perspective on it if you like. She's white and has been a British citizen for quite a few years now but was born in one of the more recent EU entry countries. She's always been conscious of being different especially when she speaks and her accent is evident. In recent years of course accents similar to hers have become far more common but when she first came here she felt a very obvious foreigner as people always commented on her accent and where she came from in one way or another. She has a pragmatic view on the subject as in her home country foreigners/ethnic minorities have traditionally been treated with suspicion and even hatred. I guess it's for this reason that hearing others say that people like her shouldn't be here isn't nice but doesn't bother her unduly. She knows and is proud of her roots, had made her choices and doesn't feel at all apologetic for doing so but does feel very grateful for being given that chance and is proud to be a British citizen.

Although she's felt very aware of her accent she'll tell you that she's never felt the victim of any real discrimination. Quite the reverse in fact, she finds the fact that she's been able to enjoy free educational courses and healthcare in the UK from the day she arrived here quite remarkable. Conversely, she felt very awkward when on my first trip to her country and we booked into a hotel, I was forced to pay a higher rate for my room than she was purely for being foreign! All in all, she's very happy to be here and feels this country has been very kind to her over the years. The fact that so many of her friends have come here and done similar would seem to bear out her experience.

Good Post! An example of why I feel this is an awesome country.

It's a shame that such a culture of fairness and equality is something which the BNP and it's ilk treat with contempt and anger rather than pride

[punky]

Did you see the Panorama Hate On Your Doorstep episode? I think the most obvious thing it shows is that the buzz-words like diversity, multiculturalism, tolerance and equality are very much enforced rather than followed. That is probably the foremost thing feeding the BNP at the moment.

The nazi-generals comment shows quite well why the BNP need to be given airtime and need to have a wide reasonable mainstream audience instead of just the usual far-right and the UAF lot.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Osem

I'll give you my wife's perspective on it if you like. She's white and has been a British citizen for quite a few years now but was born in one of the more recent EU entry countries. She's always been conscious of being different especially when she speaks and her accent is evident. In recent years of course accents similar to hers have become far more common but when she first came here she felt a very obvious foreigner as people always commented on her accent and where she came from in one way or another. She has a pragmatic view on the subject as in her home country foreigners/ethnic minorities have traditionally been treated with suspicion and even hatred. I guess it's for this reason that hearing others say that people like her shouldn't be here isn't nice but doesn't bother her unduly. She knows and is proud of her roots, had made her choices and doesn't feel at all apologetic for doing so but does feel very grateful for being given that chance and is proud to be a British citizen.

Although she's felt very aware of her accent she'll tell you that she's never felt the victim of any real discrimination. Quite the reverse in fact, she finds the fact that she's been able to enjoy free educational courses and healthcare in the UK from the day she arrived here quite remarkable. Conversely, she felt very awkward when on my first trip to her country and we booked into a hotel, I was forced to pay a higher rate for my room than she was purely for being foreign! All in all, she's very happy to be here and feels this country has been very kind to her over the years. The fact that so many of her friends have come here and done similar would seem to bear out her experience.

All I can say Osem, is that your wife has been extremely lucky. As a "white foreigner" myself, I have experienced some of the most awful bigotry and racism you could think of. When my family arrived here, we were faced with refusal of service in shops, openly refused accommodation and employment because of our race. We suffered verbal and physical abuse, some ignorant bigots would even spit at us in the street, especially after a terrorist incident.

So, it is not all warm and friendly in many places in Britain, it never has been. It's just that some areas are better at hiding it than others.

Thread title updated, seeing as there's no longer any doubt about this happening.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

My family and I came to the UK in 1975. I was almost 6 at the time. We lived in Southfields, south London - a pretty nice area. Growing up I do remember being called a paki, at secondary school some older kids even tried to force bacon down my mouth. The bacon incident was a common thing happening to a lot of the asian pupils in the school. This was in 1982.

Between 1984 and 1990 my parents bought a corner shop. My mum ran this on her own following a divorce, and I can honestly say that we were subjected to racist incidents every week. The work paki was a common insult, by the way all my sisters were born in Mozambique, our parents born in India.

Following the gulf wars I have been spat on on a crowded tube (no one said anything) and I have walked into a pub with some friends, only for drinkers to say, "we dont want any arabs in here". There have still been occurences in recent times where I have been called a Paki - but to a lot thats ok because "its only an abbreviation of Pakistani". Last week my aunt and uncle were telling me they were about to board a train in Horley (Surrey), and a young white guy with some dogs on a lead pushed infront of them and muttered "its dogs before Pakis" My uncle is 70 - he spent 20 years working for Scotland Yard.

I would say that recently the racist element has been funnelling their hatred principally towards muslims. Even more worryingly this is not always as open as the BNP, but also subtly done by other main stream, elements.

For me this is the most worrying thing. A common consensus amongst a lot of disillusioned young men I talk to is not "Is it because Im asian?" but, "Is it because I'm muslim?". Before anyone steps in to say "muslims dont integrate etc etc and are bringing this upon themselves", I would say all the muslims I personally know are either working professionals or have their own businesses. They all contribute to the UK in terms of employing people, paying taxes, helping in the community, being involved in local and higher level goverment.

I love this country, I pay my taxes, my daughter was born here and as far as I'm concerned she is English. I have held a british passport - been a british citizen - since 1980. I, nor my family, have never claimed any handouts even though we were penniless when we arrived in the UK. I am not a unique case, the majority of muslims I know are the same. It's just a shame that recently we as muslims are made to feel that we have no place in this country unless we abandon our faith/culture.

The irony is that even those brown faced people who were once practising muslims and have abandoned Islam for the English culture that a lot of non muslims say we should adopt, - who drink, who go to bars, pubs & nightclubs, who eat pork, who change there names to English/westernern variations - even they wont be accepted by the racist element.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

I think a lot of prejudice comes from the policies of "helping those in most need" thus if you've managed to traipse half way across the planet to edge up on the shores of old Blighty with nothing you'll go to the head of all the queues. Not saying that's necessarilly wrong but it does cause alienation of the people who've been waiting for years to get a councill house etc. Not surprising that they might consider holding their noses and voting BNP.

When my family and I arrived in this country we were helped at all, least of all by the government or local concils. We faced prejudice and bigotry nearly every day. I doubt very much you have ever encountered signs on windows of shops saying, "no dogs, no Blacks, no Irish." My kid sister passed out in the street one day. My mother went in to a café to ask for a glass of water for her and was told, "get out, we don't want your sort in here."

I think a lot of prejudice comes from the policies of "helping those in most need" thus if you've managed to traipse half way across the planet to edge up on the shores of old Blighty with nothing you'll go to the head of all the queues. Not saying that's necessarilly wrong but it does cause alienation of the people who've been waiting for years to get a councill house etc. Not surprising that they might consider holding their noses and voting BNP.

Other than isolated, often mis-reported, stories in the papers is there any actual statistical evidence of this trend? It seems to be a common refrain from people but one which they never back up or provide concrete examples of.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

When my family and I arrived in this country we were helped at all, least of all by the government or local concils. We faced prejudice and bigotry nearly every day. I doubt very much you have ever encountered signs on windows of shops saying, "no dogs, no Blacks, no Irish." My kid sister passed out in the street one day. My mother went in to a café to ask for a glass of water for her and was told, "get out, we don't want your sort in here."

How long has it been now since all that stopped?

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by Damien

Other than isolated, often mis-reported, stories in the papers is there any actual statistical evidence of this trend? It seems to be a common refrain from people but one which they never back up or provide concrete examples of.

I think you would have been better asking when did he arrive in this country rather than talking about statistical evidence of this trend.

You are only 23 and therefore quite obviously unaware that such things as this used to happen in this country in the none to distant past.

[punky]

Originally Posted by Damien

Other than isolated, often mis-reported, stories in the papers is there any actual statistical evidence of this trend? It seems to be a common refrain from people but one which they never back up or provide concrete examples of.

The trouble is anecdotal evidence isn't permitted for obvious reasons and the only examples we get in the media are the more extreme cases. So you can't win.