[Update] The Royal Mail strike thread

[Russ]

Originally Posted by punky

Why don't the strikers use work-to-rule?

Probably because the action doesn't **** off the populus enough. Let's face it, in industrial action in the private sector involves screwing the public one way or other by blockading fuel depots or rolling roadblocks.

We will always be inconvenienced because that's the most criticial bit of industrial action

Ain't that the truth.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Russ B

Maybe the RM workers could take a chill pill too instead of going on strike? My income isn't just based on ebay you know.

I imagine theirs is mostly based on RM, which is why they're peed off beyond the chill pill.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by danielf

I imagine theirs is mostly based on RM, which is why they're peed off beyond the chill pill.

Which is the very reason a "chill pill" is useless for me.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by punky

Why don't the strikers use work-to-rule?

I think Zrbyte said earlier they have done that, to no effect, so the strike is the next (regrettable, presumably) move.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by jamiefrost

Which part of these modernisation efforts are they striking about?

From the Royal Mail website

• Not working all the hours for which people are paid. A significant number of delivery postmen in some units in London complete their walks up to two hours before their scheduled duty finish each day yet are unwilling to help out with other tasks for the remainder of the working day. The 2007 agreement set out that people should work the hours for which they are paid.


• During the summer when mail volumes are low there is less work to do. By asking each delivery postman simply to deliver to one or two extra streets, some of their colleagues’ summer holidays can be covered without overtime. Many London delivery units refuse to cover additional streets.

• Refusal to work to revised delivery routes generated by computer aided planning, which is used in postal organisations around the world and is aimed at making us more efficient.

• A refusal to accept the use of more part time workers in delivery to enable us to be more flexible and match the workload, even though we have guaranteed that no-one who works full-time will be forced to go part-time.

• In Mail Centres, there are demarcation lines which date back decades - so, for example, Distribution drivers refuse to work in the mail centre even when they have no driving to do but there is work in the mail centre which needs attention

Everyone needs to be more flexable going forward, to get the job done and support their company.

All they are doing at the moment is damaging the buisness from which they will find it harder and harder to recover from


JJ

Way to go Royal Mail. Just the way to get the communication lines open; call your work force lazy. That'll go down well at the negotiation table, won't it.

Way to go Flyboy, completely dodge the rather important and shocking issues jamie has posted.

Honestly, how did this lot survive Thatcher? The CWU really is carrying on as if it's still the 1970s. How can anyone think it unacceptable to work the hours they're contracted and paid for?! And demarcation lines for pity's sake. This lot really aren't living in the real world. It's contemptible.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Chris

Honestly, how did this lot survive Thatcher? The CWU really is carrying on as if it's still the 1970s. How can anyone think it unacceptable to work the hours they're contracted and paid for?! And demarcation lines for pity's sake. This lot really aren't living in the real world. It's contemptible.

If I recall correctly the issue of certain post deliverymen/women (you'll notice that this is peculiar to some "units in London") finishing their runs early was flagged up / part of the deliberations in the 2007 dispute.

They are delivery postmen, not "sorters" or some other element of the RM, they do the job they were contracted to do. The fact that Royal Mail management, in defiance of the wishes of the majority of their workforce and indeed almost all of their UK customer base, decided that there should only be one mail delivery (carried out by delivery postmen) per day as opposed to the previous twice daily deliveries (carried out by delivery postmen) is an issue for Royal Mail management.

Delivery postmen deliver post (the clue is in the job title). If their employer prevents them from doing so then that is their employers fault, not theirs.

There you go on the anti union rant again. I don't know what you work at Chris but there are demarcation lines in every walk of business. For example does your company boss clean the toilets, or do the photocopying, or deal with the post?

Consider this. What if you elected to ignore the demarcation lines in your work which effectively protect your job, what if a colleague began doing your work along with their own and your boss picked up on this and thought, "Hey, I've just noticed that such and such seems to be quite capable of multitasking and doing his job and Chris's job, why are we employing Chris?

Given the current economic climate demarcation lines in the form of job descriptions are the very thin line between many people still being in a job and not having enough time to spend on the internet union bashing.

As such I wouldn't be so quick to knock them.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

As such I wouldn't be so quick to knock them.

Great. So who can I strike against?

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Russ B

Great. So who can I strike against?

I'd need more info Russ.

Firstly, who do you work for?

Do you have a legitimate grievance against them?

Are you a member of legally constituted trade union whose representatives have been democratically elected to represent you?

Is your job under threat by an expectation of multi tasking or the introduction of a lower paid, lower skilled or part-time based workforce?

Has your employer sought to make major changes in the terms and conditions of your contract of employment which you or your union might perceive to be detrimental to you, your health, your work life balance or your standard of living?

That type of stuff would help.

[Russ]

I'm working for myself. It's mail order related, most of my incoming and outgoing mail is in envelope form. At the moment I'm getting by just using stamps but I'm looking at getting a RM business account and forking out for a 'franking' machine. To justify that cost I need to be sure of a business plan which I'm tentatively working out.

Although bad the economy isn't affecting my trade directly but the RM would really screw up my projected growth. It's hard enough selling the idea of small businesses to people when I have major league competition but all it would take is delivery delays to take longer (even asking people to be patient during the strikes doesn't work - most people want things NOW or they go elsewhere) and potential customers give up and take their business elsewhere.

I need a delivery service I can rely on. It should be the RM but I'm not fussy, I'll pay anyone to deliver my mail and have orders brought to me, this is why I'm more than happy for the RM to have competition if they won't do the job they're supposed to do.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

If I recall correctly the issue of certain post deliverymen/women (you'll notice that this is peculiar to some "units in London") finishing their runs early was flagged up / part of the deliberations in the 2007 dispute.

They are delivery postmen, not "sorters" or some other element of the RM, they do the job they were contracted to do. The fact that Royal Mail management, in defiance of the wishes of the majority of their workforce and indeed almost all of their UK customer base, decided that there should only be one mail delivery (carried out by delivery postmen) per day as opposed to the previous twice daily deliveries (carried out by delivery postmen) is an issue for Royal Mail management.

Delivery postmen deliver post (the clue is in the job title). If their employer prevents them from doing so then that is their employers fault, not theirs.

There you go on the anti union rant again. I don't know what you work at Chris but there are demarcation lines in every walk of business. For example does your company boss clean the toilets, or do the photocopying, or deal with the post?

Consider this. What if you elected to ignore the demarcation lines in your work which effectively protect your job, what if a colleague began doing your work along with their own and your boss picked up on this and thought, "Hey, I've just noticed that such and such seems to be quite capable of multitasking and doing his job and Chris's job, why are we employing Chris?

Given the current economic climate demarcation lines in the form of job descriptions are the very thin line between many people still being in a job and not having enough time to spend on the internet union bashing.

As such I wouldn't be so quick to knock them.

As it happens, I am currently a statistic, but that's par for the course when you specialise in short-term contract work. But I have worked in plenty of offices and for more than one FTSE-100 outfit - one, in particular, where both the CEO and COO had a real bugbear about voicemail and phones ringing out, and used to lead by example by answering random desk phones if he happened to be passing while they were ringing and being ignored. I got a callback message on a post-it from one of them once.

I have been called upon and have been happy to take on all sorts of tasks that were not part of my core job description over the years, becauseI have always seen myself as an employee of company X rather than simply a person who does job Y.

I appreciate the general point you're making about demarcation lines, but I think - I hope - you and I both know that there's a difference between taking reasonable steps to safeguard your job, and taking extreme measures to avoid having to lift a finger and do something productive.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Way to go Royal Mail. Just the way to get the communication lines open; call your work force lazy. That'll go down well at the negotiation table, won't it.

Way to go CWU - see mail volumes plummet because the service your members provide isn't what it should be but carry on regardless, living in the past and biting the hand that feeds you. That'll go down well in the middle of a recession won't it...

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Russ B

I'm working for myself. It's mail order related, most of my incoming and outgoing mail is in envelope form. At the moment I'm getting by just using stamps but I'm looking at getting a RM business account and forking out for a 'franking' machine. To justify that cost I need to be sure of a business plan which I'm tentatively working out.

Although bad the economy isn't affecting my trade directly but the RM would really screw up my projected growth. It's hard enough selling the idea of small businesses to people when I have major league competition but all it would take is delivery delays to take longer (even asking people to be patient during the strikes doesn't work - most people want things NOW or they go elsewhere) and potential customers give up and take their business elsewhere.

I need a delivery service I can rely on. It should be the RM but I'm not fussy, I'll pay anyone to deliver my mail and have orders brought to me, this is why I'm more than happy for the RM to have competition if they won't do the job they're supposed to do.

Given the competitive growth in the mail / parcel delivery service sector and the fact that you're not fussy about who performs this element of your business then perhaps you should do as you suggest and consider one of the alternatives to RM.

In essence, if your business plan projections don't hold much faith in the service levels offered by RM then perhaps exploring the possibility of a service level agreement with an alternate provider is the answer.

That said, if your business is operated through a service provider / middleman such as ebay you might want to consider an alternative to that as they are moving towards a "no postage fee" model in many categories.

Given the current economic climate vendors who are active in these categories and unable to absorb / offset these losses effectively - without passing the costs on to their customers - will undoubtedly falter or fail.

Without wishing to sound like a merchant of doom - and good / reliable postage services aside - the days of smaller mail order startup business thriving in an online environment such as ebay are numbered.

That's exactly how they'd like it.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Given the competitive growth in the mail / parcel delivery service sector and the fact that you're not fussy about who performs this element of your business then perhaps you should do as you suggest and consider one of the alternatives to RM.

In essence, if your business plan projections don't hold much faith in the service levels offered by RM then perhaps exploring the possibility of a service level agreement with an alternate provider is the answer.

That said, if your business is operated through a service provider / middleman such as ebay you might want to consider an alternative to that as they are moving towards a "no postage fee" model in many categories.

Given the current economic climate vendors who are active in these categories and unable to absorb / offset these losses effectively - without passing the costs on to their customers - will undoubtedly falter or fail.

Without wishing to sound like a merchant of doom - and good / reliable postage services aside - the days of smaller mail order startup business thriving in an online environment such as ebay are numbered.

That's exactly how they'd like it.

At the moment I don't have an alternative to RM. For the forseeable future (12 months) I'm going to be relying on customers sending me items via 1st or second class mail and me using the same service back. Nobody else does simple door-to-door delivery of mail at that level. You're right that I don't care who takes care of the mail. This is why my attitude is if the RM workers won't do the job I'll happily pay someone else in their place.

It's also why they'll never get one iota of sympathy from me. The worst thing is if my business goes under as a result of orders being lost or delayed, there's not a single thing I can do about it.

[ZrByte]

Originally Posted by punky

Yes.

We haven't had our mail undisrupted from the last set of strikes they held.

Now who is acting selfishly? Just because all some people get in the mail is a few bills that gives them an excuse to get out of paying that everyone else should have to make do.

Since your location is cockney geezer land I take it that means London, London have been striking on and off for several months on a completely unrelated issue. Because of this I could understand why you would be sick of this and why it seems never ending for you. My office and most others haven't been on strike since that 4 or 5 day fiasco about 18 months ago. And even now the vote was treated very seriously in my office though I think ours was a bit below the average with only half in favour (though still the majority).
And you do realise after the modernisation RM are going to try again on the privatisation of the mail system. When that happens domestic deliveries become optional. With RM being the only company really interested in doing it anywhere but big cities you may find you wont have a delivery any more (at least not daily).

---------- Post added at 11:59 ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 ----------

Originally Posted by Osem

Oh I soooooo wish that was true. I've had delivery problems to this address on and off ever since we've lived here (almost 25 years) - basically mail with the wrong address being delivered here and our mail going elsewhere (usually a particular address in a different street because the postie just can't be bothered to check it first. Over the years I've been through the Royal Mail customer services route any number of times and complained until I'm blue in the face but the problem persists. I've also been in contact with Post-Watch many times and they eventually elevated the complaint within RM but each time there's a gap of a few months between issues they basically try to treat it like a totally new new complaint and refer you back to RM even though it's exactly the same problem and often the same people involved. Domestic customers can't force RM to do anything and Post-Watch had no power to force RM to do anything either so the whole exercise of complaining was a waste of my time and money!

We recently had 2 Recorded Delivery items put through our door without being asked for a signature even though we were in at the time. I contacted Post-Watch hoping to link this event to my last complaint reference so as to avoid having to go through the whole rigmarole all over again... I got a recorded announcement to say Post-Watch no longer exists and referring me to yet another organisation with a nice snappy title (but equally soft rubber teeth when it comes to dealing with RM very probably) - Consumer Focus - I couldn't bring myself to go any further....

And how does ranting on a forum or screaming at the postman in the street any more effective?