[Update] The Royal Mail strike thread

[Russ]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

you sound like a room full of opera singers warming up me me me me me me

If we're paying for the service then I think we have the right to think "me me me".

Originally Posted by papa smurf

these people don't want to strike and lose money its the last resort .

I'm sure that'll get lots of sympathy from people who will be out of work this christmas and desperate for a job.

[Raistlin]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

It's democracy - that's how it works.

Yep, that's exactly how a democracy works - it still doesn't mean that they're right.

When do the rest of us get a vote? Or, if it's only union members that get to vote, how do those of us affected by the strike join the union and therefore get a vote?

A democracy is when everybody gets an equal right to vote on a decision, I don't remember anybody asking me if I minded the postal workers going on a strike that would affect me.

I used to support many workers that striked but not anymore why simple because i would love a job any job and right now i cannot get one nor at the rate i am going downhill will be in a position to be attractive to any employer. So there are thousands of you with jobs and your not happy and your going to strike right at the time of year you know damn well it will hinder and hurt people most and you want my support dream on. I have already had one specialist appointment cancelled because RM lost my letter and have now binned postal appointments so i never have to miss one again.

Times move on technology is now playing a bigger part in many many jobs and people have lost jobs because of that but you can't stem the tide by spitting out your dummy and striking. As for service my postman on average puts 10-12 letters through my door that are wrong how is that RM's fault it is the individual postman at fault because he doesn't bother to read what he is putting through my door.

We have had parcels stolen and damaged because posite leaves them in plain sight outside no matter what the weather. So please don't tell me it is all nasty RM managements fault because it isn't certain postal workers thought they had a job for life always protected by their powerful union and wollah like many have had to face reality and are being asked to accept things ain't staying the same.

But simple logic (i like simple) says to me company is in trouble needs more money so it's workers go off on strike annoy a vast amount of people who then seek alternatives company loses contracts\trade and therefore has to make more cuts thus kicking off another merry go round of strikes.

I know RM workers don't like hearing it but you are lucky right now to have a job i know many damn good people who are struggling on benefit trying everything they can to get a job so if your really that unhappy and don't like it do yourself a favour do us the public a favour and leave the job. Let someone else take it (they will not have trouble replacing people) who won't moan year in year out about this and that and woe is me.

Because many like me don't support you anymore in fact we're getting sick and tired of hearing about workers striking as well as gaining the uncanny knack of predicting when you will strike because you've done it so many times before..

[Raistlin]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

[...]Snip[..]

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Rob M

A democracy is when everybody gets an equal right to vote on a decision, I don't remember anybody asking me if I minded the postal workers going on a strike that would affect me.

Rob,

It's how modern union democracy works.

A "democracy" is not defined simply as a matter of "when everybody gets an equal right to vote on a decision".

Do you remember anyone asking you to vote on whether you minded going to war with Iraq?

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

It's how modern union democracy works.

Does it also involve dragging innocent people in to it who have no say in the outcome? The same people who get dragged in to rail disputes too? And anyone else who decides to teach their employer a thing or two?

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Russ B

Does it also involve dragging innocent people in to it who have no say in the outcome? The same people who get dragged in to rail disputes too? And anyone else who decides to teach their employer a thing or two?

Obviously, yes.

[Russ]

There goes public sympathy, driving away....

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Russ B

There goes public sympathy, driving away....

Here's hoping it's wearing its seatbelt.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Do you remember anyone asking you to vote on whether you minded going to war with Iraq?

That's different again: representative democracy. We didn't vote on Iraq, but those who did, were put in a position to vote by us, to cast votes on our behalf.

There's nothing representative about the workings of the trade union movement. They're single-interest pressure groups, pure and simple, and need to stop carrying on as if they are deserving of the level of political and economic influence that they clearly feel entitled to.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Russ B

There goes public sympathy, driving away....

there goes your sympathy [not that you had any ] one voice among millions ,hardly representative of the public at large ,is it really such a big deal in your life to have the mail disrupted ? .

[punky]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

is it really such a big deal in your life to have the mail disrupted ? .

Yes.

We haven't had our mail undisrupted from the last set of strikes they held.

Now who is acting selfishly? Just because all some people get in the mail is a few bills that gives them an excuse to get out of paying that everyone else should have to make do.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Chris

That's different again: representative democracy. We didn't vote on Iraq, but those who did, were put in a position to vote by us, to cast votes on our behalf.

All we need is to get the proportional in front of representative to get something resembling democracy, but that's taking things slightly off-topic...

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Chris

That's different again: representative democracy. We didn't vote on Iraq, but those who did, were put in a position to vote by us, to cast votes on our behalf.

There's nothing representative about the workings of the trade union movement. They're single-interest pressure groups, pure and simple, and need to stop carrying on as if they are deserving of the level of political and economic influence that they clearly feel entitled to.

Chris, with all due respect that's a gross misrepresentation of both scenarios - but typical of your anti union stance as evidenced in this thread.

The trade union movements are representative of their membership and, strangely enough, they allow their membership to vote on matters which affect them and their lives - a concept which appears strangely alien to Governmental representative "democracy".

This is the same Governmental representative democracy which now sees proposals for benefit cuts, a reduction in the numbers on benefits and a move towards better up-skilling for employment - what employment? Have they missed the recession they presided over?

As for the postal workers it's their jobs at risk, they are entitled to take democratic strike action should they elect to do so. A democratic right won, and enshrined indeed, in part by the sacrifices of those made in previous wars.

My heart bleeds for those of you on here who would happily have men and women turfed onto the dole queues of the nation because your letters / delivery service being be disrupted for a period as a result of them exercising a democratic right is just a bit too much for you to handle. The very same type of right I hasten to add that most of you are quite happy - in the guise of representative democracy - to allow men and women to sacrifice / waste their lives in a foreign land because you think Government representative democracy is a better democracy than union democracy.

Most of the ill informed on here would do well to read this.

The Government own Royal Mail and are driving forward the cost cutting and modernisation. The very same Government that bailed out the banks (with your money). The very same banks who have been shafting you all with legally questionable charges and insurance policies. The very same banks who brought about the bonus culture that has led to the worst recession in living memory - but still retain their jobs, bonuses and incentives.

Royal Mail - and to a greater degree its employees - are the latest potential victims in a laughably deplorable Government's attempt at asset stripping and off loading what was once a great British company / service.

That anyone would be small / narrow minded enough to think that these men and women have decided to strike just to inconvenience the public is a sad reflection of the self centred nature of society. Those people bemoaning this action should be ashamed of themselves.

This Government have betrayed, deceived and ruined your country to feather their own nests. You are living in a control state of constant surveillance, observation and suspicion / mistrust of each other.

That a collective of men and women should stand up to them with the threat of losing their jobs either way is to be applauded - not derided and bemoaned by a few armchair "it wouldn't have happened in my day" generals.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

there goes your sympathy [not that you had any ] one voice among millions ,hardly representative of the public at large ,

I still haven't heard a mass vote of public support yet.

Originally Posted by papa smurf

is it really such a big deal in your life to have the mail disrupted ? .

Yes it IS - and that's the very reason the RM choose to disrupt the public, as it causes maximum inconvenience. They hope we'll get annoyed to the point that we'll scream at RM to give the workers what they what. Only thing is it's backfiring.