[Update] The Royal Mail strike thread

[Charlie_Bubble]

Hmmmm, in a couple of months it's Christmas and New Years Eve again, just about now that the tube drivers threaten to strike and demand more holidays or pay by holding joe public to ransom.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oc...ert-royal-mail

Argos and other retailers switching to rivals as well. Amazon have not cancelled the contract but at the moment the previous one had expired and has not been renewed while Amazon are doing deals with other groups.

[injuneer]

Originally Posted by SB_07

I'm sure RM workers aren't working in 3rd world conditions and i'm pretty sure they get a decent wage considering their job isn't the hardest in the world.

We don't see the armed forces going on strike, and most get paid less than a RM worker

I think you'll find they're on quite a small wage, less than 20K, & from the way I see them rush around I'm also sure it's very physical, not sure I could do it at my age now. Some elitists seem to have the attitude that just because a job is not mentally demanding the people must be lazy or incompetent. I worked on telecoms networks, the work was largely IT oriented & I was paid a very good wage though I wouldn't say the work justified the pay, but that's the way of the market, there are many disparities in working life & I have great respect for manual workers. I agree the armed forces should get a lot more but there's not much they can do about it as they are at the whim of government, I'd be interested to know how much an American soldier gets payed? There aren't many people who want to join a profession to get their limbs blown off or even killed.

Originally Posted by injuneer

I think you'll find they're on quite a small wage, less than 20K, & from the way I see them rush around I'm also sure it's very physical, not sure I could do it at my age now. Some elitists seem to have the attitude that just because a job is not mentally demanding the people must be lazy or incompetent. I worked on telecoms networks, the work was largely IT oriented & I was paid a very good wage though I wouldn't say the work justified the pay, but that's the way of the market, there are many disparities in working life & I have great respect for manual workers. I agree the armed forces should get a lot more but there's not much they can do about it as they are at the whim of government, I'd be interested to know how much an American soldier gets payed? There aren't many people who want to join a profession to get their limbs blown off or even killed.

It's more about the skillset and the job market. More people can do manual work than professional skilled worked therefore it's usually the case that the latter is paid more because their is more competition for staff.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Average $44,000 source

Darn sight more than our brave boys.

Interesting figures, but, I think they include and average of ALL ranks:

E2 - Private (Army) - U.S. National Averages

This one works out as twenty-eight thousand dollars, just over seventeen thousand five hundred pounds (basic salary being an equivalent of ten thousand eight hundred pounds). That includes all extras. For an OR1 grade Pvt in the British army (the lowest enlisted grade, out of basic training), the basic salary is about sixteen thousand pounds, then there's all the extra allowances in top.

So, which country's soldiers are paid more?

Let's not pursue US Army pay any further please, it's got nothing to do with the topic.

[ZrByte]

Originally Posted by Russ B

You seem to be of the opinion that we're saying they don't have reason to be unhappy.

No-one is saying that.

But am I to have sympathy for or even support those whose action is inconveniencing me? Especially when nothing I can do can change their situation? Especially when someone like Amazon seems to have a similar view as myself and has caused them to lose money by having a major contract dropped?

I hope more companies follow suit like Amazon. Run the RM in to the ground and get other companies to offer a delivery service. Any laid off workers could apply for the new positions, they'll have the experience.

FYI Amazon has 'Cancelled' its contract with royal mail twice since I have been with the company, this will be the third.
Basically like with any bulk mailing company at contract renewal time they look to see if they can get a better deal. At the moment its HDNL, last time it was TNT, the time before I think it may have been UKN. During each of the previous times that we lost the contract TNT forwarded aall the less profitable items onto RM, so in effect we continued to deliver the bulk of Amazons mailings, while TNT only took the larger more lucrative items for themselves.
So basically it has little to do with service and more to do with cost.

---------- Post added at 13:49 ---------- Previous post was at 13:48 ----------

Originally Posted by Russ B

I didn't say their action shouldn't affect anyone. But why the hell should I have to suffer and be inconvenienced by an argument which is not mine? A ban on overtime, work-to-rule, those are just some of the things they could do which won't cause trouble for Joe Public.

Been doing both of those since the last big strikes. Doesn't work, As long as customers don't notice RM do not care.

---------- Post added at 13:54 ---------- Previous post was at 13:49 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

Of course it has something to do with the strikes. In the last few months Royal Mail has become completely unreliable as a result of these actions. Businesses cannot trust the Royal Mail and are going to have increasing problems as a result.

They are holding ordinary people and businesses to ransom to settle their dispute with management. The Union has recently said they don't think the backlog of mail will ever get delivered, and then protested the Royal Mail were employing non-postal workers to help shift though it. People have important documents in the mail. I know of one person still waiting for their degree certificate and another for their passport. The Union not only wants their workers not to sort out this backlog but also to prevent anyone from doing so.

Ultimately though they are a business and the employees are encouraging their own downfall. They are making the service unreliable and thus forcing businesses such as Amazon, of of their biggest clients, to their rivals.

The union Obviously must be wrong or misquoted on that one because the only backlog we currently have is ingoing mail to London due to an unrelated local issue.
And even when a backlog exists it is only M class items that are held and even those only within the predefined limits of the specific M agreement with the business in question. First and second class are handled as per usual, with a delay normally related to the amount of strike time taken. Mail put in the backlog on Monday will be the first out of the mail-centre on Tuesday so Items are not held for months in the backlog, its a constantly changing group of mail.

[Flyboy]

Sorry ZrByte, "M Class items?"

[ZrByte]

Originally Posted by SB_07

I'm sure RM workers aren't working in 3rd world conditions and i'm pretty sure they get a decent wage considering their job isn't the hardest in the world.

We don't see the armed forces going on strike, and most get paid less than a RM worker

I don't think they do, Im only on about 12K PA after bonuses. Admittedly I only work a 27.5 hour weekly contract but I work about 33 hours per week usually with the last 5.5 hours unpaid because my managers wont pay overtime But issue disciplinarys like they are going out of fashion if we try and work to our time.

---------- Post added at 14:00 ---------- Previous post was at 13:57 ----------

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Sorry ZrByte, "M Class?"

Its like 3rd class mail, Its only usable by large businesses and such. If you have an M class you will notice a large M in the top corner where you would normally see 1st or 2nd. M class mail can sometimes arrive at its destination as fast as 1st class post but can also be delayed by upto a month (I think)depending on the specific agreement with the company in question though delay times are decided by management and not individual posties. M class is also optional to your postman for delivery on a Saturday.

---------- Post added at 14:05 ---------- Previous post was at 14:00 ----------

Originally Posted by Nidge

The postman have had it far to good for to long, they've been rumbled and they don't like it. Round here the RM are after bringing in an automatic sorting machine which will take the work away from the postmen and women, they don't like because the machine can do a better job than them.

If they don't like to work for a living I'm sure there's plenty out there who would like a cushy job on the post.

As for losing the £25million Amazon contract it's their own faults, Amazon have got their customers to think about, if HDN have won the contract well done to them.

As I have just posted above it doesn't really matter, RM will still deliver most of it, and its not a free service we provide either so though a £25m contract may have been lost RM will likely still see half of that back.
Also we have been one of the test offices for the sorting machine and let me assure you it doesn't do a better job than us. I'm sure the next version or the one after might be able to but currently it doesn't so a similar amount of work still has to be done by deliver office staff to get the walks prepared, Unfortunately due to the large investment by RM they don't want to pay the same amount of hours and use bullying tactics to try and force us to work for free.

---------- Post added at 14:11 ---------- Previous post was at 14:05 ----------

Originally Posted by Nidge

We've got some good ones round here but we've got more bad ones, the one that comes to my house is spot on, if I'm not in and there's a parcel that needs signing for he'll put it in the shed and drop a note through my door, I've told him to do that, the bad ones won't do that they'll tell me to go to the depot to collect it.

Unless you have put it in writing to the delivery office stating that you want that to be done the others are well within their rights to refuse. Because if you don't have a registered 'safe-place' they leave it there and it goes missing or gets damaged (especially if its recorded or special) they could lose their job. Though if they haven't told you that you have to put it in writing that is out of order.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by ZrByte

As long as customers don't notice RM do not care

And as long as the customers DO notice, the Union does care?

[ZrByte]

Originally Posted by Russ B

And as long as the customers DO notice, the Union does care?

No, because you aren't the unions priority, WE are. However, if you and other unhappy customers complain to the people in control i.e. RM and not your postman on the street or venting on an internet forum RM may actually start to care.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by ZrByte

No, because you aren't the unions priority, WE are. However, if you and other unhappy customers complain to the people in control i.e. RM and not your postman on the street or venting on an internet forum RM may actually start to care.

No, I'll complain to the individuals who choose to make the public suffer because THEY can't have what THEY want.

Public sympathy? Don't make me laugh.

[ZrByte]

Originally Posted by Russ B

No, I'll complain to the individuals who choose to make the public suffer because THEY can't have what THEY want.

Public sympathy? Don't make me laugh.

I didn't ask for your sympathy, Don't make me laugh, I couldn't do this job if I needed that.
I'm merely pointing out to you that if you moan at your postie or vent on a forum nothing happens, complain to the people who can make a difference and you might get somewhere.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by ZrByte

I didn't ask for your sympathy, Don't make me laugh, I couldn't do this job if I needed that.
I'm merely pointing out to you that if you moan at your postie or vent on a forum nothing happens, complain to the people who can make a difference and you might get somewhere.

The Union will no doubt (as they've done in the past) claim to have 'public support'.

The more we speak out about this in public (such as to the papers and on the internet) the more they look like idiots for claiming it.

[ZrByte]

Originally Posted by Russ B

The Union will no doubt (as they've done in the past) claim to have 'public support'.

The more we speak out about this in public (such as to the papers and on the internet) the more they look like idiots for claiming it.

Interesting solution you have there, Hows that working so far? It just seems funny to me as I've never heard a public speaker yet who didn't sound like an idiot most of the time.