Lockerbie bomber released

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Chris

Fine, let's play along with your conspiracy theory for a minute or two.

What did the SNP administration in Edinburgh have to gain by obeying underhand 'requests' from Westminster? Or, what did they stand to lose by ignoring any such requests?

We don't know what the truth of this situation is or who might gain what but I don't think it's entirely implausible for one government to press another to take a certain course of action in return for, say, some much needed government contracts or investment. If major trade deals were/are in the offing with Libya on the basis of Megrahi's release, maybe the powers that be down south felt they could lean on their friends in Holyrood in return for bailing out their national banks. Quid pro quo and all that. I wonder how many decisons made in Westminster over the decades have been wholly or partly influenced by pressure from the US....

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by Osem

We don't know what the truth of this situation is or who might gain what but I don't think it's entirely implausible for one government to press another to take a certain course of action in return for, say, some much needed investment or government contracts. Quid pro quo and all that.....

As I said earlier who actually holds the purse strings and were does the funds that Scotlands government use come from, where from that is quite easy it comes from Central Government in Westminster, and if they hold the purse strings then that is a powerful bit of leverage.

We will never know the truth in our lifetime as to what actually happened but we can speculate.

As the old saying goes Money makes the world go around and it is quite a persuader when something is needed to be done

Originally Posted by Osem

We don't know what the truth of this situation is or who might gain what but I don't think it's entirely implausible for one government to press another to take a certain course of action in return for, say, some much needed government contracts or investment. If major trade deals were/are in the offing with Libya on the basis of Megrahi's release, maybe the powers that be down south felt they could lean on their friends in Holyrood in return for bailing out their national banks. Quid pro quo and all that. I wonder how many decisons made in Westminster over the decades have been wholly or partly influenced by pressure from the US....

But this is precisely the point which so many posters in this thread are missing. The Labour government in Westminster has no friends amongst the SNP government in Edinburgh. They are very bitter opponents. The SNP has nothing to gain by doing G. Brown a favour, and everything to gain by publicising any attempt the London government might make to influence a devolved issue.

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by Chris

But this is precisely the point which so many posters in this thread are missing. The Labour government in Westminster has no friends amongst the SNP government in Edinburgh. They are very bitter opponents. The SNP has nothing to gain by doing G. Brown a favour, and everything to gain by publicising any attempt the London government might make to influence a devolved issue.

Labour may not have friends amongst the SNP but they do hold the purse stings which gives Labour possible leverage.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Osem

We don't know what the truth of this situation is or who might gain what but I don't think it's entirely implausible for one government to press another to take a certain course of action in return for, say, some much needed government contracts or investment. If major trade deals were/are in the offing with Libya on the basis of Megrahi's release, maybe the powers that be down south felt they could lean on their friends in Holyrood in return for bailing out their national banks. Quid pro quo and all that. I wonder how many decisons made in Westminster over the decades have been wholly or partly influenced by pressure from the US....

and don't believe for a second that the US weren't fully involved here to, if Obama really didn't want him released he wouldn't have been, sure he might dish out a few sound bites to appease the victims families and the press but this whole recent situation has been very convenient for all concerned, no damaging appeal, no need to look for the real/other perps, lucrative trade deals all round etc etc this wasn't Scotland's decision nor was it Kenny's, he's as much of a pawn in all this as Megrahi.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Chris

But this is precisely the point which so many posters in this thread are missing. The Labour government in Westminster has no friends amongst the SNP government in Edinburgh. They are very bitter opponents. The SNP has nothing to gain by doing G. Brown a favour, and everything to gain by publicising any attempt the London government might make to influence a devolved issue.

There have been many occasions over the years when it has been temporarily expedient to deal with and even form alliances with bitter enemies. As I've said we don't know all the facts or the background to this affair but I wouldn't entirely rule out this being an example of such an arrangement between 'enemies' who both feel the mutual benefits outweigh the risks or costs, political or otherwise.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Moldova

Labour may not have friends amongst the SNP but they do hold the purse stings which gives Labour possible leverage.

Leverage which, if used, could be taken advantage of by the SNP to cause massive damage to the UK and UK government.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Stuart C

Leverage which, if used, could be taken advantage of by the SNP to cause massive damage to the UK and UK government.

That's how grubby little deals work isn't it and that's the risk the, often desperate, people who enter into them take. If any of this is true, maybe Brown (who must be pretty sure he and his cohorts are getting booted out at the next election anyway) calculated that it'd be worth the risk. He's desperate enough to do or say virtually anything and we all know how poor his calculations have been over the years don't we!... As has been said, despite all their rhetoric opposing the release, the US authorities have very probably made similar strategic calculations and decided it was in their best interests too.

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by Stuart C

Leverage which, if used, could be taken advantage of by the SNP to cause massive damage to the UK and UK government.

As I previously said above, I doubt that in our lifetime we will ever know the truth.

As for the possibility of the SNP causing waves with the potential of possible funding cuts waved in their faces by the likes of Meddlesome I would not be so sure as I would not trust that man to pull some kind of dirty trick.

Do not think for one second that I am in any way putting down the Scottish assembly, I just do not trust the present government of the whole of the UK to have acted honourably in the freeing of this man.

Thats the crux here we don't trust the westminster government and like it or not they do have some influence over scotland even if it is only financial and i really wouldn't put it past GB and co to use that to get what they want. Chris don't mistake our scepticism on this matter as an attack on scotland or it's devolution because it isn't it is yet another clear attack on the integrity of this shambolic crowd we currently have ruling in westminster.

[Osem]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...onnection.html

Would it really surprise anyone if behind the scenes trade deals had been done or at least attempted by the Dark Lord or his colleagues??

[Mr Angry]

From The Telegraph.....again.

"What is perhaps not widely understood is that the process behind Megrahi’s release began not with Alex Salmond’s devolved SNP administration in Edinburgh, but with the Labour government in London – or, more specifically, with Tony Blair*. It was the then prime minister who brokered a secret prisoner transfer agreement with Gaddafi, as part of a general thawing of relations between the West and this former rogue state. It was linked to suggestions that massive new British, American and European investment in Libya’s vast oil and gas fields would be forthcoming if only the Libyans would mend their ways. The small matter of the Lockerbie bomber was a fly in the ointment.

Blair didn’t inform the authorities in Edinburgh of his deal, even though they were responsible for Megrahi’s conviction and incarceration. Salmond and the independent Scottish law officers only found out about it when they were tipped off by senior prison service officials. Downing Street then compounded the original error by trying to pretend that the deal done with Gaddafi did not concern Megrahi, even though he was the only Libyan held in any British jail."



*Tony Blair is a man who does not "talk with terrorists" and has been more than happy to send 200+ British personnel to their untimely deaths in Afghanistan.

[Osem]

... and yet there are still some people around here who refuse to admit or accept just how duplicitous Bliar, Brown and their cohorts have been over the years they've been in power.

Originally Posted by Moldova

Do not think for one second that I am in any way putting down the Scottish assembly, I just do not trust the present government of the whole of the UK to have acted honourably in the freeing of this man.

In that case, don't call it an assembly, call it what it is - a parliament, with the power to pass primary legislation and ministers to carry it out. Devolution in Scotland is not the same thing as in Wales, not by a long way.

As I previously said above, I doubt that in our lifetime we will ever know the truth.

Only if you're determined to believe it happened in some way other than it should have, or as it manifestly did.

As for the possibility of the SNP causing waves with the potential of possible funding cuts waved in their faces by the likes of Meddlesome I would not be so sure as I would not trust that man to pull some kind of dirty trick.

The funding of Scotland is determined by a fixed formula that sets it in direct proportion to money spent in England. Once again, you're crediting UK ministers with having powers they simply do not have.

You're also continuing to show complete ignorance of the political situation in Scotland - and I use 'ignorance' in its correct sense, not as an intended insult. Since getting into government the SNP has consistently played out a strategy of looking for conflict with Westminster, seeking to show how 'London Labour' is bad for Scotland, complaining at every non-devolved decision taken in London that affects Scotland ... in every possible way to claim that the Union doesn't work and Scotland should break away (except that they call it 'independence' rather than separation, because that serves their aim of painting Scotland as being somehow under English control or domination).

If there was the merest whiff of Gordon Brown trying to influence last week's decision about Megrahi, you can be quite sure that Alex Salmond would have been in every TV studio in the whole of the UK making sure we all knew about it. And if the UK Government had found some means of 'punishing' Scotland with reduced funding, it would serve the SNP's long-term aims to take the hit in the wallet and then use that as another means of bashing the Union.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Chris

If there was the merest whiff of Gordon Brown trying to influence last week's decision about Megrahi, you can be quite sure that Alex Salmond would have been in every TV studio in the whole of the UK making sure we all knew about it. And if the UK Government had found some means of 'punishing' Scotland with reduced funding, it would serve the SNP's long-term aims to take the hit in the wallet and then use that as another means of bashing the Union.

Salmond's nothing if not a canny guy and if he has got some dirt on Gordon you can bet he'll use it if he can but at the time that best suits him and the SNP best, just before an election possibly and not necessarily in a manner which betrays him/them as the source. This is all just another a political game and there is a myriad of means by which Westminster can exert pressure on Holyrood (and vice versa) some of which will be more successful than others. It's not impossible, however, that the SNP has a few rather nasty skeletons in their closet. If that were the case and they were known to Brown, that'd be just one way of preventing Salmond from spilling any beans in this case. That's the way politics works.