This one's going down

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by Gary L

That would be moider!

No as I would want him to feel the guilt forever but ensure that he never drove again.

Originally Posted by Moldova

No as I would want him to feel the guilt forever but ensure that he never drove again.

i'm sure he does feel the guilt and will feel it for a long time to to come ,
it was an accident ,preventable?that's a matter of opinion,but all the same an accident as are most of the road deaths in this country every year
would it have made a difference if his sirens had been on?possibly,possibly not but the fact remains that he is in jail his life is ruined because of a lack of judgement
As for losing his pension,no he shouldn't why should he? he has contributed to it and deserves to keep it or get the money back he has paid in
moldover and a few others seem to wan't this man hung,drawn and quatered well in my opinion that seems to be the easy argument to take and shows a lack of understanding of how people think or behave
I am sure that hayley's parents will get a handsome payout from the force(rightly so)but do they accept part of the responsibility,will other parents look at the way there children are behaving late at night and accept some responsibility when there children are getting hurt
i don't think so and untill that happens then society is going to continue to find scapegoat's for our failings as i think has happened in this case

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by martyh

i'm sure he does feel the guilt and will feel it for a long time to to come ,
it was an accident ,preventable?that's a matter of opinion,but all the same an accident as are most of the road deaths in this country every year
would it have made a difference if his sirens had been on?possibly,possibly not but the fact remains that he is in jail his life is ruined because of a lack of judgement
As for losing his pension,no he shouldn't why should he? he has contributed to it and deserves to keep it or get the money back he has paid in
moldover and a few others seem to wan't this man hung,drawn and quatered well in my opinion that seems to be the easy argument to take and shows a lack of understanding of how people think or behave
I am sure that hayley's parents will get a handsome payout from the force(rightly so)but do they accept part of the responsibility,will other parents look at the way there children are behaving late at night and accept some responsibility when there children are getting hurt
i don't think so and untill that happens then society is going to continue to find scapegoat's for our failings as i think has happened in this case

Accidents do not happen when you are hit at 94MPH by a car on surburban streets death does!

Please stop trying to say that this was an accident as this was someone that killed a person with a weapon, which in this case was a Police car driven by a Policeman who was so INTENT on catching his "supposed criminal" that he ignored all speed limits and failed to give any warning by use of his Blue lights and Siren.

I personally am sickened by people who keep trying to say this was an accident and that the nice policeman was only doing his job, if he had done his job properly then possibly Hayley would not have been killed by him.

quote
"if he had done his job properly then possibly Hayley would not have been killed by him."

and possibly if her parents had done there job properly then hayley would have been in the house at that time of night

An accident is a specific, identifiable, unexpected, unusual and unintended external action which occurs in a particular time and place, without apparent or deliberate cause but with marked effects. It implies a generally negative probabilistic outcome which may have been avoided or prevented had circumstances leading up to the accident been recognized, and acted upon, prior to its occurrence
here's the dictionary definition of accident i believe all the criteria have been met in this case

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by martyh

quote
"if he had done his job properly then possibly Hayley would not have been killed by him."

and possibly if her parents had done there job properly then hayley would have been in the house at that time of night

An accident is a specific, identifiable, unexpected, unusual and unintended external action which occurs in a particular time and place, without apparent or deliberate cause but with marked effects. It implies a generally negative probabilistic outcome which may have been avoided or prevented had circumstances leading up to the accident been recognized, and acted upon, prior to its occurrence
here's the dictionary definition of accident i believe all the criteria have been met in this case

Always blame the victim because it was a policeman, good job the jury decided otherwise.

So it was an Accident even though he was going at 94MPH on a suburban road, you amaze me by even trying to use the above quote.

When you kill someone it is down to a deliberate ac,t which in this case was him speeding and therefore cannot be classed as an accident.

I would re read your posted quote and maybe you will realise that it does not in any shape or form fit the criteria to ever be classed as an accident.

Then again I doubt it.

Originally Posted by Moldova

Always blame the victim because it was a policeman, good job the jury decided otherwise.

So it was an Accident even though he was going at 94MPH on a suburban road, you amaze me by even trying to use the above quote.

When you kill someone it is down to a deliberate ac,t which in this case was him speeding and therefore cannot be classed as an accident.

I would re read your posted quote and maybe you will realise that it does not in any shape or form fit the criteria to ever be classed as an accident.

Then again I doubt it.

if you read my post properly you will see i have'nt "blamed the victim"i am saying that other people are to blame aswell they must share responsibility
and yes it was an accident or do you think it was murder because that's the only other option you have left yourself

[SMG]

This officer did make a horrendous error of judgment. It was not murder, he didn't deliberately set out to kill. However, he knew that a motor car is a lethal weapon, &, as such, should have been treated with respect. He failed on every count in this instance. Morally & professionally. He mis used the vehicle & killed a girl, for that he is paying the penalty.

As much as I hate to say this, but the pension he has paid into should be frozen, or transferred to a private pension fund. He has paid into the pot & should be entitled to draw his money back.

I agree the money would be better off going to the victims family, but thats not possible. Criminal injuries takes care of that side of matters.

I feel no sorrow for this officer, driving at 94 in a 30 area was not, & never will be acceptable. It is, quite simply, too dangerous. In my own opinion, in those circumstances, & at that speed, no driver has the reactions, & no vehicle has the stopping power, to prevent a collision.

This incident was avoidable.

[xpod]

i am saying that other people are to blame aswell they must share responsibility

I dont know whether to laugh or spout some bile
The more i hear this kind of gumph the more i hope this guy does have an "accident" in jail.

So,by your reasoning,if one of my girls suddenly decided to skip school tomorrow(which none of them have ever done thankfully) and then god forbid some beast dragged her into a bush somewhere that would be my fault as well as my girls??

I wonder what you feel about all the prostitutes who get raped & murdered?
Is that their fault too??

Originally Posted by xpod

I dont know whether to laugh or spout some bile
The more i hear this kind of gumph the more i hope this guy does have an "accident" in jail.

So,by your reasoning,if one of my girls suddenly decided to skip school tomorrow(which none of them have ever done thankfully) and then god forbid some beast dragged her into a bush somewhere that would be my fault as well as my girls??

I wonder what you feel about all the prostitutes who get raped & murdered?
Is that their fault too??

i'm talking about this case specifically
don't know what prostitites have been mentioned or why you would bring any up in this thread

[xpod]

i'm talking about this case specifically
don't know what prostitites have been mentioned or why you would bring any up in this thread

,will other parents look at the way there children are behaving late at night and accept some responsibility when there children are getting hurt

I wasn`t being specific and just used them as an example.
You weren`t being specific about this case either when talking about "other parents & their responsibilities" so i can only repeat what i asked you above...

Originally Posted by xpod

I wasn`t being specific and just used them as an example.
You weren`t being specific about this case either when talking about "other parents & their responsibilities" so i can only repeat what i asked you above...

ok then let's your game

one of your girls has just been abducted ,the suspect is spotted 2miles away ,a police car races(at 94 mph) to the scene not using his lights and sirens so as not to alert the suspect and on the way knocks down a pedestrian and kills her is this an accident or would the officer in question be pillaried and locked up

and in this specific case (because i know what the girl was upto)i do think the parents should shoulder some responsibility for allowing her to hang about a park late at night with a load of other kids on a school night
her own actions contributed to the accident just as much as the officers

and incase your wondering about my sources for my info it is my oldest son who goes to school with the kids

and as for prostitutes who get murdered not only is that a ridiculous example to use in the context of this thread but since you ask i do think they have a choice but that is a subject for another discussion

[xpod]

one of your girls has just been abducted ,the suspect is spotted 2miles away ,a police car races(at 94 mph) to the scene not using his lights and sirens so as not to alert the suspect and on the way knocks down a pedestrian and kills her is this an accident or would the officer in question be pillaried and locked up

If he was doing 94MPH in a 30MPH zone,with no lights or sirens at night,like the one in question then yes he`s going to jail.Besides,i`d want him to have his lights & sirens blaring to frighten the bugger off my lass at the earliest opportunity...wouldn`t you?

and in this specific case (because i what the girl was upto)i do think the parents should shoulder some responsibility for allowing her to hang about a park late at night with a load of other kids on a school night
her own actions contributed to the accident just as much as the officers

It shouldn`t matter if the family are your typical Jeremy Kyle fodder.
Coppers should not be driving at nigh on 100Mph in built up areas with 30Mph speed limits without lights or sirens blaring and i`d go as far to say not even with them blaring.

Kids,especially 16Yr old young adults do the things that they do,always have and always will.....

What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them? ..... Plato 400 BC

Whether the family are upstanding members of the community or whether their complete and utter ******s it`s not their fault when members of our Law Enforcement break the laws in such a reckless manner themselves.

and incase your wondering about my sources for my info it is my oldest son who goes to school with the kids

What info?

and as for prostitutes who get murdered not only is that a ridiculous example to use in the context of this thread but since you ask i do think they have a choice but that is a subject for another discussion

No more ridiculous than calling it an accident that the parents themselves are partially responsible for though eh?

EDIT:Sorry about swear filter.I didn`t think somebody who tossed something was a swear word.

Originally Posted by xpod

If he was doing 94MPH in a 30MPH zone,with no lights or sirens at night,like the one in question then yes he`s going to jail.Besides,i`d want him to have his lights & sirens blaring to frighten the bugger off my lass at the earliest opportunity...wouldn`t you?

so you'd want him scared off to attack another girl


It shouldn`t matter if the family are your typical Jeremy Kyle fodder.
Coppers should not be driving at nigh on 100Mph in built up areas with 30Mph speed limits without lights or sirens blaring and i`d go as far to say not even with them blaring.

lets hope the offenders keep there speed down aswell so the police can catch them

Kids,especially 16Yr old young adults do the things that they do,always have and always will.....

thats why parents should shoulder some responsibility when things go wrong

Whether the family are upstanding members of the community or whether their complete and utter ******s it`s not their fault when members of our Law Enforcement break the laws in such a reckless manner themselves.

as far as the officer was concerned at the time he felt he was acting correctly to the information he was given it's not his fault the info was wrong.the practice of fast driving without sirens is accepted as a tactic in certain circumstances which is usually left upto the officer to decide.
in this case it proved to be wrong ,that imo means the training is flawed and should be addressed

What info?



No more ridiculous than calling it an accident that the parents themselves are partially responsible for though eh?

you mentioned before that you have girls ,do you or would you allow you girls when they are 16 to hang about in a park with a load of other kids drinking untill midnight or later if the answer is yes then you should be held partially responsible for any actions they take or consequencies of there actions

EDIT:Sorry about swear filter.I didn`t think somebody who tossed something was a swear word.

no it's not imo
i personally wouldn't call the family "people who throw things"... just misguided in there belief that a 16yr old should be allowed to drink in a park untill the early hours

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by martyh

but do they accept part of the responsibility,will other parents look at the way there children are behaving late at night and accept some responsibility when there children are getting hurt
i don't think so and untill that happens then society is going to continue to find scapegoat's for our failings as i think has happened in this case

Don't blame the parents. it's just cheap.
If she was 18 you'd be telling us to blame herself.
94mph on a 30mph in stealth mode in the dark is what's to blame nobody and nothing else.

---------- Post added at 20:00 ---------- Previous post was at 19:55 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

and possibly if her parents had done there job properly then hayley would have been in the house at that time of night

If Hayley was tucked up in bed, he would have probably hit somebody else instead. then you'd have to come up with some other excuse as to why it was that persons fault.

You have everything covered already. aged 0-18 it's the parents fault. 18 - 112 it's probably their own fault.

[Derek]

Ah nice to see the usual feelings of goodwill and peace are still about on CF. Oh...

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

As I say I can see that side of this also but I just want him to suffer sorry but I do

Originally Posted by Moldova

No as I would want him to feel the guilt forever but ensure that he never drove again.

Broken legs and nooses all round for some people. I suppose all people convicted of Death by Dangerous Driving automatically get a bullet in the kneecaps or back of the head in Zingle and Moldova land? Or just the ones in white hats?

Originally Posted by xpod

If i killed some poor lass while chasing someone at 90Mph in a 30Mph zone then i`d expect 10 years for my troubles.
I`d probably get it too.

I suppose that would all depend on if you had a reason to drive at 90MPH which despite what some people want is sometimes necessary to do and is sometimes safe enough to justify doing it.

Have a good look at the video from inside the car.

I'll even go through the salient points for you.

0 - 49 Seconds - Car is travelling at around 30MPH, the driver isn't hooring it about for a laugh. He gets up to just over 40MPH for a few seconds.

50 seconds - A car goes past him in the opposite direction. It is read by his ANPR camera and alerts him by means of a noise and he (I imagine) looks down at the screen to see the vehicle is wanted in connection with a crime.

51 - 72 seconds - Still going at about 30MPH (probably reading why the vehicle is wanted and deciding if it is acceptable to pursue it he finds a spot to turn his vehicle

73 - 96 seconds - He accelerates hard away up a hill to catch the vehicle. In these 20 seconds or so he has to (he is alone in the car so no neighbour to do it

• Continue driving
• Make ground on the vehicle
• Inform his control room he is pursuing a vehicle
• Decide whether to activate his lights and sirens which may alert the vehicle (still unsighted) he is after it any allow it to dive down a side street

Those 20 seconds has cost a girl her life but he wasn't out with the express intention of killing someone and his driving was in no way dangerous or unprofessional till that point.
As well as him losing his job he'll probably never drive again and he *will* feel remorse for the death, far more than half the people who kill when driving.

The other thing which I've noticed is the only other people in the entire video are at the very end when they were crossing the road. In the previous footage not one other pedestrian was seen and bearing in mind it was after 11 its possible that might have had an impact onto whether or not he activated his warning equipment.

But hey why let that get in the way of a decent witchunt.