When The 50MB Rollout Is Done - New Tier Thoughts

[Ignitionnet]

I was just wondering, once VM have the 50M rollout done and upstream capacity upgraded, it would be nice (imho) to see a few changes to the service tiers, I would welcome some feedback on these ideas:

Option 1:

XXL: 50/1.5Mbit -> 50/5Mbit, remains STM free and cap free but subject to AUP/FUP - if usage affecting area VM reserve the right to discuss usage.
XL: 20/0.768Mbit -> 25/2.5Mbit, STM removed, replaced with 250GB/month cap after which service reduced to 5Mbit/0.5Mbit.
L: 10/0.512Mbit -> 10/1Mbit, STM removed, replaced with 150GB/month cap after which service reduced to 2.5/0.256Mbit
M: 10/0.512Mbit -> 10/1Mbit, STM removed, replaced with 100GB/month cap after which service reduced to 2.5/0.256Mbit
S: 2Mbit/0.256Mbit speed remains, STM removed, replaced with 10GB/month cap after which service reduced to 512k/128k.

Virgin will supply, for all tiers, view my usage pages, and Virgin are to inform via a walled garden, browser popup and/or email when customers reach 50%, 80% and 100% of monthly limit where appropriate.

Option 2:

All speed increases as above.
XXL: STM introduced Peak time limit 7.5GB downstream between 4 and 9PM and 4GB upstream. Daytime downstream limit 15GB, no upstream limit.
XL: STM changes: Peak time limit 3GB -> 3.5GB downstream. 1.4GB -> 2GB upstream. Daytime 6GB -> 7GB.
L: STM changes: Peak upstream limit 1.2GB -> 1.5GB.
M: STM changes: Peak upstream limit 750MB -> 1GB.
S: Remains as previous.

All throttle percentages remain as previous with XXL being 75%.

Option 3:

STM removed.

Speeds increased as per Option 1.

Shaping introduced on following protocols:

**Note** Traffic to be deprioritised - if the network is nearing congestion those protocols will be deprioritised in the following steps: 25% throttle, 50% throttle, 75% throttle in 5 minute intervals.

When congestion alleviated for 15 minutes system will then reverse process at 5 minute intervals, IE if that CMTS went to 50% throttle after 10 minutes of congestion after 15 minutes of all being ok it will drop to 25% throttle then if still no congestion will remove shaping entirely after a further 5 minutes.

Upstream and downstream both work independently.

SSL, NNTP, P2P, Streaming: All traffic policed as required to reduce congestion.
HTTP: From known download sites, Rapidshare, etc, policed.
FTP: From non-VM FTP policed.
Unknown traffic: Policed (to suck up the encrypted P2P, etc).

All gaming traffic will not be policed.

Option 4:

Speed increases as above.
All broadband prices to increase 10-25%
All STM removed, no fair use policy.
Acceptable performance ranges for all services clearly stated and as follows:

XXL: 30 - 50Mbit downstream, 3 - 5Mbit upstream.
XL: 15 - 25Mbit downstream, 1.5 - 2.5Mbit upstream.
M and L: 6 - 10Mbit downstream, 0.6 - 1Mbit upstream.
S: 1.5 - 2Mbit downstream, 200 - 256kbit upstream.

Choose your poison!

[telfordcable]

I hope 50 Meg will be STM free but have a usage cap 500GB per month. EG:

50Mb - 500Gb per month no STM £40 a month
20Mb - 200Gb per month no STM £25 a month
10Mb - 100Gb per month no STM £15 a month
2Mb - 20Gb per month no STM £10 a month

All upload will be uncapped

[dev]

Option 1 is the fairest, doesn't punish the odd large download but keeps people in check from downloading a large amount.

Option 2 from what i gather is what we have now just higher limits which isn't as good as Option 1 due to punishing the odd large download

Option 3 is the worst option, ISPs shouldn't shape traffic imo.

Option 4 will never work imo and people will never accept not getting the advertised speed as being fast enough.

I've said for a while, in the future we'll be paying for traffic levels and not speed. A small fee of say £5/month to cover modem/line rental/maintenance. Add on a cost of say £1 per 20GB of traffic either monthly or allow it to be used like pre-pay mobiles are done so you can spend say £50 and get 1TB of data and use it whenever and in what time frame you wish.

[broadbandking]

I don't want a download limit at all

[Welshchris]

This is my opinion on it........
50mb should remain at £52 with a monthly limit of 700GB
20mb should be dropped to £30 a month with a montly limit of 375GB
10mb should be £15 a month with a monthly limit of 150 GB

Once the download limits have been reached then you are subject to STM for the remainder of the month. All uploads are uncapped and not subject to STM.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by dev

Option 4 will never work imo and people will never accept not getting the advertised speed as being fast enough.

People accept it all the time on DSL though dev, the majority of DSL subscribers on ADSL Max or 2+ do not receive the full speed as sold. In any case it's a speed range and an assured performance, if performance drops below that range it would be considered a fault to be corrected rather than 'normal contention'. It actually improves things for customers and is more transparent. Broadband is sold elsewhere in this manner though they are perhaps a more savvy audience.

I should just mention the service upgrades I did. Target was a ratio of 10:1 between downstream and upstream, which is perfectly achievable. Upgrading XL to 25/2.5 puts it outside of ADSL2+ performance range both for downstream and upstream. Upgrading of XXL upstream and M/L upstream preserves the 10:1 ratio. S is largely ignored as a non-entity.

I want the STM in place how it was or is being trialed

[AbyssUnderground]

I'd prefer Option 1 but with higher caps. Why? I'm on 10Mbps (L) and I use 300GB/month on average already. A lower cap than that would make it hard for me even if the speed is 1/4.

50Mbps - 1000GB
20Mbps - 750GB
10Mbps - 500GB
10Mbps (M) - 150GB
2Mbps - 30GB

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by AbyssUnderground

I'd prefer Option 1 but with higher caps. Why? I'm on 10Mbps (L) and I use 300GB/month on average already. A lower cap than that would make it hard for me even if the speed is 1/4.

50Mbps - 1000GB
20Mbps - 750GB
10Mbps - 500GB
10Mbps (M) - 150GB
2Mbps - 30GB

I would not agree that it's reasonable to expect 500GB for 25 quid a month. The discrepancy between M and L is also massive given the small price difference. Appreciate it's a matter of personal choice but think the expectation of 500GB is unrealistic and the jump from M to L is also unrealistic.

If you want 300GB I'd be wanting more of your cash

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

I want the STM in place how it was or is being trialed

Part of the reason I went into more depth on other things is that I think STM as it is is unfair and doesn't work. After 9PM my area hits a serious go slow due to STM clicking off and people starting their leechery, and it punishes people who may have a brief spike of heavy utilisation while allowing people, perhaps like yourself, nothing personal , whose bandwidth requirements run into hundreds of GB a month to go untouched as your usage is all non-interactive and you can schedule outside of STM hours.

Thanks for the feedback though Zing I can imagine it being a very common thought among people whose requirements are for a lot of bandwidth.

[AbyssUnderground]

Perhaps, but for XXL I'd expect at least 1TB a month and at least half that on XL. Maybe 250GB on L would be better? I could last 50GB at 1/4 of the speed OK I guess

April 2009 (Incoming: 241889 MB / Outgoing: 8959 MB)

Not doing too bad this month, I'm under average.

November 2008 (Incoming: 856593 MB / Outgoing: 20406 MB)

A very over average month then... I rarely do that much though.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by AbyssUnderground

Perhaps, but for XXL I'd expect at least 1TB a month and at least half that on XL. Maybe 250GB on L would be better? I could last 50GB at 1/4 of the speed OK I guess

I suggested XXL being uncapped but subject to AUP/FUP as an upsell tactic. The XL cap will not go higher than 250GB simply because there's no point. Less than 1% of customers would be affected by a 250GB limit, less than concurrently hit STM, and I want that 1% paying for XXL

As per with me when I ask these things I've some commercial plotting in mind as well as merely geeky curiousity

EDIT: Also note that all of these schemes still allow 'Unlimited downloads' advertising according to ASA regulations.

[Druchii]

Originally Posted by AbyssUnderground

Perhaps, but for XXL I'd expect at least 1TB a month and at least half that on XL. Maybe 250GB on L would be better? I could last 50GB at 1/4 of the speed OK I guess

Not doing too bad this month, I'm under average.



A very over average month then... I rarely do that much though.

Hm, i would have called that fair use of the service.

I just abused mine over the past 3 days. Uploaded around 18Gb. (Ubuntu torrent seeding).

There are no fair usage caps here in Norway by the way.

[AbyssUnderground]

Yeah I guess XXL being premium should be uncapped but subject to AUP/FUP.

I'd be all for the upload speed upgrade as well, being a web designer I often need it, yet can't get it since ADSL offers <3Mbps to my house. Cable is my only option.

Generally I'm against caps all together but if we can get rid of STM and the cap is decent (200GB minimum on tier L for sure), I'd be all for it. STM annoys the hell out of me. I couldn't work with anything less than that though cap wise. Or, if they allowed upgrading of the cap for say, £1 per 25GB I'd probably be happy with that.

[browney]

I went for STM as it presently exists. I don't like having a monthly limit.

[chickendippers]

I'm totally against monthly limits, it doesn't solve the problem at all. The problem is available bandwidth at peak times, caps do nothing to curb usage during peak times.

It really is a toss up between options 2 and 3; both allow users to use their connection at full speed at peak time (providing sufficient network capacity) for at least a while. The benefit of option 3 is that it would only apply if the network was busy, otherwise everything is max speed