The existence of God - Page 86

Russ · 17-04-2009, 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRZ400

Russ B and foreverwar have no argument against that comment and will no doubt ignore like they've done with all the other challenging questions put to them in this thread.

It's already been addressed, perhaps you missed it because I didn't answer in the way you hoped I would?

Also I'd be grateful if you could take the time to show me what else I've apparently ignored, otherwise your comment there is completely worthless and unwarranted.

Gary L · 17-04-2009, 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

It's already been addressed, perhaps you missed it because I didn't answer in the way you hoped I would?

Not really Russ. you wasn't sure what question I was asking of you earlier, so gave me 2 of your own questions to answer.

I was more specific in my question in post #1262

Russ · 17-04-2009, 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L

Not really Russ. you wasn't sure what question I was asking of you earlier, so gave me 2 of your own questions to answer.

I was more specific in my question in post #1262

It wasn't aimed at you because you hadn't accused me of ignoring anything. But the answer I gave here still applies.

DRZ400 · 17-04-2009, 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

It's already been addressed, perhaps you missed it because I didn't answer in the way you hoped I would?

Also I'd be grateful if you could take the time to show me what else I've apparently ignored, otherwise your comment there is completely worthless and unwarranted.

You've just ignored it AGAIN with your repetitive method of answering a question, with a question. You've done this many times throughout this thread!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L

That is the truth of it really. she has been brainwashed. be it God or anything else. nobody really can say that this isn't what has happened to her.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRZ400

Russ B and foreverwar have no argument against that comment and will no doubt ignore like they've done with all the other challenging questions put to them in this thread.

Gary L · 17-04-2009, 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

It wasn't aimed at you because you hadn't accused me of ignoring anything. But the answer I gave here still applies.

No, like he said you are answering a question with a question.

Russ · 17-04-2009, 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L

No, like he said you are answering a question with a question.

Your question (from post 1262): "are you sorry that she has been force fed God from birth. and that she thinks that unless she has God in her life she will go to hell?"

My answer (from post 1267): ".......I am not comfortable with...parents bombarding a child's life with any specific subject or matter which encroaches on their development and restricts their ability to have a normal upbringing.". Which is not a question.

Saaf_laandon_mo · 17-04-2009, 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

Your question (from post 1262): "are you sorry that she has been force fed God from birth. and that she thinks that unless she has God in her life she will go to hell?"

My answer (from post 1267): ".......I am not comfortable with...parents bombarding a child's life with any specific subject or matter which encroaches on their development and restricts their ability to have a normal upbringing.". Which is not a question.

My daughter has been told or reminded about God & Islam everyday for the last 3 years of her life (She will be 5 soon). Is this brainwashing? I want her brought up as a muslim - does this make me a bad parent?

So far she hasn't had a restricted upbringing, and is developing extremely well. She also goes to an Islamic based faith school (Reception Year) and her non Islamic studying is going great.

I didn't see the programme thats being debated above but arent there exceptions to everything in life?

Russ · 17-04-2009, 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

My daughter has been told or reminded about God & Islam everyday for the last 3 years of her life (She will be 5 soon). Is this brainwashing? I want her brought up as a muslim - does this make me a bad parent?

So far she hasn't had a restricted upbringing, and is developing extremely well. She also goes to an Islamic based faith school (Reception Year) and her non Islamic studying is going great.

I didn't see the programme thats being debated above but arent there exceptions to everything in life?

I would suggest you and I have very similar ideas regarding parenting

Saaf_laandon_mo · 17-04-2009, 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

I would suggest you and I have very similar ideas regarding parenting

Surely at the end of the day there is a responsibility on a parent to install some values and morals on their child based on their own experiences and lifestyle. You bring your daughter up as a Christian, I as a muslim. Why should we be accused of brainwashing our kids into believing about God and the religion we follow.

Can we then accuse those of not following any religion, and not believing in God, of not opening their children's mind (by telling them God doesnt exist or by choosing to not to tell them about God?)

Jimmy-J · 17-04-2009, 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

You bring your daughter up as a Christian, I as a Muslim. Why should we be accused of brainwashing our kids into believing about God and the religion we follow.

But which of your religions do you think is the true one? Do you see each other as atheists?

Gary L · 17-04-2009, 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

Your question (from post 1262): "are you sorry that she has been force fed God from birth. and that she thinks that unless she has God in her life she will go to hell?"

My answer (from post 1267): ".......I am not comfortable with...parents bombarding a child's life with any specific subject or matter which encroaches on their development and restricts their ability to have a normal upbringing.". Which is not a question.

Ok, here it is again.
are you sorry that she has been force fed God from birth, and that she thinks that unless she has God in her life she will go to hell?

You say you are not comfortable with bombardments of any specific subject or matter. so I think you are saying that this case is the same.
but you have not answered the second part of the question. are you sorry for her thinking that unless she has God in her life she will go to hell?

---------- Post added at 14:35 ---------- Previous post was at 14:32 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

My daughter has been told or reminded about God & Islam everyday for the last 3 years of her life (She will be 5 soon). Is this brainwashing? I want her brought up as a muslim - does this make me a bad parent?

But Deborah seems to be thinking that unless she has God and preaches God she will go to hell. she has said this, and that is what is being said about her being brainwashed.
she believes that unless she is perfect and does what is expected of her, by even converting others, then she is a bad person and will have to go to hell.

I think you'd have a better understanding if you were to watch it.

roadwolf · 17-04-2009, 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

My daughter has been told or reminded about God & Islam everyday for the last 3 years of her life (She will be 5 soon).

WHY?? if your god exists then why the constant reminders? surely he will show himself to your daughter. Atheists don't have to remind their children every day that there is no god.

Saaf_laandon_mo · 17-04-2009, 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Product 13

But which of your religions do you think is the true one? Do you see each other as atheists?

Islam teaches us that it has come after Christianity and that Muhammed was sent down by God to to further reiniforce the messages sent down by Moses, Jesus and other prophets. We believe that the God that the Jews and Christians believe in is the same as the one we believe in. We also respect the religions before us (i.e of the books that God sent down - Torah, OT, Koran).

The fundamental differences are that a) We belive Muhammed is the last prophet of God, and b) Jesus was merely a prophet like Muhammed (so we dont believe in the holy trinity - which i still fail to understand what its about).

I wouldn't call Russ (or any other Christian) an athiest. I'd question his interpretation of Christianity, and the emphasis that Christians put on Jesus (i.e that he is part of God). Personally I see Chrisitianity today having moved very drastically away from the message that Jesus supposedly bought down. I do not believe he claimed to be the Son of God or part of God either. I think those are the fundamental differences.

At the end of the day I'm not out to convert anyone to Islam. I am perfectly content with what I believe in, it works for me, and I have a strong believe that its the right religion for me to follow (isn't that what faith is). I will also do my best to ensure that my religious values are practised and passed down to my kids.

I believe in God and don't feel i have to prove his existence. You either believe or you dont.

Russ · 17-04-2009, 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L

are you sorry for her thinking that unless she has God in her life she will go to hell?

No, that's what I believe too. It would seem her parents have been very aggressive with their parenting regarding Christianity. Like I said I avoid criticising other peoples' faith and parenting skills but I don't think that what appears to be such harsh doctrine is advisable. I consider it perfectly feasible to bring a child up in Christianity (or any faith really) and still give him or her a normal life.

DRZ400 · 17-04-2009, 14:09

Brianwashing takes time and the young are very susceptible to it especially from someone the trust.

Are the believers brianwashing your children just as they were brainwashed as a child..... yes.

Could you be made to believe the world was flat ... yes.

Can you be made to believe in a invisible man who floats in the sky ... yes.

You can be made to passionately believe in ANYTHING even when faced with the impossibility of it all.