The existence of God

[lucy7]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

banjo, just because others feel the need to spray spittle at their computer screens, doesn't mean you have to.

When in doubt, breathe deeply and don't type (imho).

Erm, easier said then done though!!!!!

[Mal]

Originally Posted by banjo

I do not spray spittle at my computer screen, and that is a very strange thing to say.

And are you saying that others can ridicule me and I cannot answer back, this thread should be closed as it is going no where and is only being used by certain people to wind others up and no one can refute that.

Well, you should have been a bit more specific with your answer, instead of generalising.

I am an atheist and perfectly happy in my life, thank you very much and I haven't ridiculed you have I?

[Jimmy-J]

How could I believe in any God? What kind of good father sends his own son to be sacrificed?

What kind of God stands by and watches all the atrocities that have ever happened and are happening now, and will happen in the future? Especially the atrocities that happen in his name.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Product 13

How could I believe in any God? What kind of good father sends his own son to be sacrificed?

That's just ripe for a reply

[banjo]

Originally Posted by Mal

Well, you should have been a bit more specific with your answer, instead of generalising.

I am an atheist and perfectly happy in my life, thank you very much and I haven't ridiculed you have I?

Well thank you for not ridiculing me and I think you will agree that we should respect each others view point but I would not start a thread such as"Do atheists exist"

[Mal]

Originally Posted by banjo

Well thank you for not ridiculing me and I think you will agree that we should respect each others view point but I would not start a thread such as"Do atheists exist"

Well, I didn't start an anti-god thread, but I was still attacked and ridiculed.

My point is that if you have a problem with the way that a certain member is posted, address it in a civil manner to them or the team, don't generalise.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by banjo

Well thank you for not ridiculing me and I think you will agree that we should respect each others view point but I would not start a thread such as"Do atheists exist"

Nobody has asked "do Christians exist"

Anyway if anyone wants proof God exists, I can prove He does.

How else do you explain Martine McCutcheon giving up her music career??

[DRZ400]

I think it's a good idea to start a poll, "Is it wise to debate religion on the internet".

Originally Posted by banjo

I do not spray spittle at my computer screen, and that is a very strange thing to say.

And are you saying that others can ridicule me and I cannot answer back, this thread should be closed as it is going no where and is only being used by certain people to wind others up and no one can refute that.

I was referring to you in the future tense.....

Never get into an argument with someone looking to get you angry - they will drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience.

[lucy7]

Originally Posted by Russ B

Nobody has asked "do Christians exist"

Anyway if anyone wants proof God exists, I can prove He does.

How else do you explain Martine McCutcheon giving up her music career??

lol

---------- Post added at 09:18 ---------- Previous post was at 09:17 ----------

Originally Posted by DRZ400

I think it's a good idea to start a poll, "Is it wise to debate religion on the internet".

What else we would all do on internet forums instead though?

---------- Post added at 09:20 ---------- Previous post was at 09:18 ----------

Originally Posted by Russ B

That's just ripe for a reply

Chris will come along soon, his answers are always well balanced and typed.

---------- Post added at 09:23 ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 ----------

Originally Posted by Russ B

I think there should be tolerance for a) atheists to work the day if they chose to and b) Christians who did not want to work it.

Agreed, and a tolerence of each other in all areas of life is needed to.

---------- Post added at 09:30 ---------- Previous post was at 09:23 ----------

I remember the long jumper, Johnathon Edwards making a stand for God, and refusing to compete on Sundays, when at competitions.
He kept his integrity for a fair time, until a really big competition came up, think it was the worlds, and his event was sheduled for Sunday.
He jumped, and won.
He now works for the BBC on Sundays as well in his new role as a sports commenter.

I remember at the time he was pulled for changing his stance.
I respect him for taking his stance in the first place, and continued to when he jupmed and won the gold.

It takes strength of character to make a stand for ones religious view points and love of God.

Originally Posted by Product 13

How could I believe in any God? What kind of good father sends his own son to be sacrificed?

To answer this it's necessary to get a bit theological. The Christian God is a trinity. He has three distinct personalities, yet they are at the same time one and the same God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. God the Father sends his Son to die on the cross; God the Son dies on the cross; God the Holy Spirit empowers believers to live the life that Jesus lived.

However the Bible makes clear that wherever God expresses himself in the text in one of His personalities, it is in fact always the case that all three personalities are intimately involved in some way or other. This has to be the case because the existence of the three personalities do not in any way detract from the 'oneness' of God.

Sorry for the heavy theology, but it really is the only way to answer your question. The Father was able to send the Son to die on the cross because the Father and the Son are one. It wasn't simply a case of Jesus going to the Cross out of blind obedience or by having his arm twisted. God's plan to use the cross was established before the world was made and Jesus, as an eternal member of the trinity, was always involved in that plan.

What kind of God stands by and watches all the atrocities that have ever happened and are happening now, and will happen in the future? Especially the atrocities that happen in his name.

This is a somewhat different issue, even though it superficially appears to be connected to your first question. You're bringing up the 'problem of suffering', something every university theology department in the world requires its students to answer massive essays and exam questions about. In other words, it's difficult to give a full answer to here.

I have touched on it earlier in the thread however so you could have a scan back through it and see. Plus, you could think about this question and post me an answer:

In your own personal life, what level of direct intervention from God would you tolerate, on occasions when in God's opinion your behaviour falls short of the standards God requires?

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by banjo

lucy7,
do you think it is ok for Christians to be pocked fun at, if it were another religion there would be all hell let loose about religious freedom.

I don't bother anyone else about religion but just lately anti Christian threads have been constantly started so if other people can have a go at me then I can and will respond.

It's not OK for those who have religious beliefs to have those beliefs poked fun at. However, patronising someone could also be considered a form of poking fun and, sorry to say, but even if your post wasn't meant that way, it came across as very patronising to me (as an atheist).

I am an atheist. I don't have a perfect life. But, in my experience, most people don't (whatever their belief). However, I do have a life that I am quite happy with and I haven't needed religion to achieve that.

Originally Posted by Product 13

How could I believe in any God? What kind of good father sends his own son to be sacrificed?

What kind of God stands by and watches all the atrocities that have ever happened and are happening now, and will happen in the future? Especially the atrocities that happen in his name.

You only have to look around the world's hotspots to realise that the more we interfere in someone's life the more complex the situation becomes and how quickly things can get out of hand due to meddling however well thought/intentioned out it might be, and most of it isn't that well thought out anyway.

So if you are an omniscient being you can see all the ramifications of interfering here and there.You can see what action will lead to another action and so forth..Sometimes the only real possible action is to take no action as being the way of preventing a worse situation from happening.

Then add to that the fact you have promised everyone the option of free choice, one can hardly go interfering at every opportunity or you are breaking your word.

Anyway maybe if there is a God he/she/it is just a scientist and we are his/her/it's petrie dish...

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

One of the arguments I hear from many Christians/Muslims/Hindus is that one of the benefits of religion/believe in God is that it lays down a code of morals & ethics which contribute to society. The problem with this argument is that it makes an assumption that without religion there would be a world lacking in morals and ethics and we might not be as civilised.

This in turn leads to Athiests thinking how dare someone suggest that its only because of religion we have good morals.

What we need to remember is that when religion came to prople, whether through Jesus or Muhammed or Ram etc etc, there were people with good morals and ethics even before there was a religion to follow.

I'm a practising Muslim. My religion provides me with a code and lifestyle that I am capable of following and it deters me from committing wrongful doing on others. But just because i'm religious it doesn't mean I am a better person that someone without religion. I do think it is this which peeves off non-believers the most, the fact that there are a lot of arrogant followers of faith who feel they are superior to others just because they don't believe.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

I do think it is this which peeves off non-believers the most, the fact that there are a lot of arrogant followers of faith who feel they are superior to others just because they don't believe.

It's a stereotypical view of believers though. I haven't seen any post from a believer which implies they are in any way a 'better' person than an atheist.

In any case the reverse can also be applied, with athiest attitudes to believers.