The existence of God

[DRZ400]

Because you spent 57 pages aggressively preaching myths as facts to people, now you act like you're a victim.

But why indeed.

[tweetypie/8]

Originally Posted by Bender

I'm not a deeply religious person, but I read a good story and wondered how others would take it. Forgive my ignorance if this is a well known story, but I'd not heard it before:

A man went to a barbershop to have his haircut and his beard trimmed.

As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation.
They talked about so many things and various subjects. When they
eventually touched on the subject of God, the barber said:
"I don't believe that God exists."

"Why do you say that?" asked the customer. "Well, you just have to go out
in the street to realize that, God doesn't exist. Tell me; if God exists,
would there be so many sick people? Would there be abandoned children?

If God existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain. I can't imagine a
loving God who would allow all of these things."

The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he didn't
want to start an argument. The barber finished his job and the customer left
the shop.

Just after he left the barbershop, he saw a man in the street with long,
stringy, dirty hair and untrimmed beard. He looked dirty and unkempt. The
customer turned back and entered the barbershop again and he said to the
barber:

"You know what? Barbers do not exist."

"How can you say that?" asked the surprised barber. "I am here, and I am a
barber. And I just worked on you!"

"No!" the customer exclaimed. "Barbers don't exist because if they did,
there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards, like
that man outside."

"Ah, but barbers DO exist! That's what happens when people do not come to
me."

"Exactly!" affirmed the customer. "That's the point! God, too, DOES exist!
That's what happens when people do not go to Him and don't look to Him for
help.

That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world."

I can see the point of the man who had his beard cut, but does this story not miss the point that the barber is only a man. whereas God is seen as omnipresent / omnipotent?

Surely if there was a God, then the barber's point would hold true? why is there pain and suffering? And if God is seen as all-forgiving and loving, why is there a need for Hell? Would everyone not be accepted into God's Heaven if they are loved and forgiven by him?

after following this thread over the past few weeks i am more convinced than ever that there is a god,there are a lot of replies to this thread and this conveys to me that a lot of people are starting to scratch their heads and think of the possibilitys that there is a god

[Russ]

Originally Posted by DRZ400

Because you spent 57 pages aggressively preaching myths as facts to people

Must be a different forum you've been reading.

Taking foreverwar's earler definition of preaching, can you link to any of my posts where I've been doing that?

Originally Posted by DRZ400

Because you spent 57 pages aggressively preaching myths as facts to people, now you act like you're a victim.

But why indeed.

Peace be upon you, and I hope your anger does not impact your everyday life, as that would not be good for you and those around you.

Take care.



And if we are posting diagrams off the web, here is one I find humourous (even though I believe in the Big Bang theory) - it even mentions dinosaurs, just for you......

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by tweetypie/8

after following this thread over the past few weeks i am more convinced than ever that there is a god,there are a lot of replies to this thread and this conveys to me that a lot of people are starting to scratch their heads and think of the possibilitys that there is a god

I do not believe in god and find it very odd that people take the bible to be the word of god, we are talking about a book of myths passed down over many hundreds of years that has been constantly altered by the church and governments to fit in with their doctrines.

I am happy to let people believe what they want as long as they do feel the need to indoctrinate me into their beliefs.

Originally Posted by Moldova

I do not believe in god and find it very odd that people take the bible to be the word of god, we are talking about a book of myths passed down over many hundreds of years that has been constantly altered by the church and governments to fit in with their doctrines.

I happy to let people believe what they want as long as they do feel the need to indoctrinate me into their beliefs.

Yup, totally agree; and not every Christian believes the Bible to be the literal word of God, although some do.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Moldova

I do not believe in god and find it very odd that people take the bible to be the word of god, we are talking about a book of myths passed down over many hundreds of years that has been constantly altered by the church and governments to fit in with their doctrines.

I am happy to let people believe what they want as long as they do feel the need to indoctrinate me into their beliefs.

Whereas there's nothing to suggest any governments have altered the Bible (in fact there's much to say it's stayed the same, see The Dead Sea Scrolls), I feel exactly the same way about atheism with regards to the second part of your post.

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Yup, totally agree; and not every Christian believes the Bible to be the literal word of God, although some do.

Thats why I missed out the word "All" from the above but to many actually believe that.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by tweetypie/8

after following this thread over the past few weeks i am more convinced than ever that there is a god,there are a lot of replies to this thread and this conveys to me that a lot of people are starting to scratch their heads and think of the possibilitys that there is a god

i was thinking its still status quo ie gone no where .

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by Russ B

Whereas there's nothing to suggest any governments have altered the Bible (in fact there's much to say it's stayed the same, see The Dead Sea Scrolls), I feel exactly the same way about atheism with regards to the second part of your post.

The Vatican will have been involved in altering the bible and the are supposed to be other unaltered versions in their vaults, plus the Vatican used to be involved in many countries politics so they could and would have been able to alter certain parts to strengthen the churches power in those countries.

The Vatican will never allow access to the original versions to protect the church, which is understandable in so many ways.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Moldova

The Vatican will have been involved in altering the bible and the are supposed to be other unaltered versions in their vaults, plus the Vatican used to be involved in many countries politics so they could and would have been able to alter certain parts to strengthen the churches power in those countries.

The Vatican will never allow access to the original versions to protect the church, which is understandable in so many ways.

Have you got any links to back up your notion that the Vatican has altered the Bible? There's a difference between altering it and only using certain books, the main one being (I think it's called) The Gospel of Phillip. That was 'removed' as it mentions Jesus allegedly kissing Mary Magdalene. It doesn't change anything about Jesus, his divinity or his legacy other than the notion that he might have been married to mary, something I certainly don't have a problem with but Catholicism does considering its stance on female priests and leaders.

Also I feel the need to point out again that the Vatican only speaks for Catholics and not the majority of Christians.

[DRZ400]

The fact off the matter is, even with the conclusive evidence put infront of them, most believe the bible to be a FACT no matter how daft the story is.

[lucy7]

Originally Posted by tweetypie/8

after following this thread over the past few weeks i am more convinced than ever that there is a god,there are a lot of replies to this thread and this conveys to me that a lot of people are starting to scratch their heads and think of the possibilitys that there is a god

result!!!!!

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by DRZ400

The fact off the matter is, even with the conclusive evidence put infront of them, most believe the bible to be a FACT no matter how daft the story is.

you missed out the story er truth


Dad, did dinosaurs really exist?
Sure they did, son. The Bible says so. They didn't call them "dinosaurs" back then, but instead they were known as "leviathans" or "behemoths".
But, my science teacher says dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. Is that true?
Of course not, son.
Then how old are they?
Well, let's see. The Bible tells us [from Adam and Eve's family tree] that the Universe is only a few thousand years old. So dinosaurs had to have lived within the past few thousand years. That's simple logic, son.
Oh. So that means they were on Noah's Ark?
Absolutely! The Bible says two of every animal were brought [by God] to the ark. Dinosaurs were animals. So, using your logic again son, dinosaurs had to be on the ark.
Huh. So how come scientists say they're older than that? and died way before Jesus?
Well, son, they just make that up. Dinosaur bones don't have labels on them to tell how old they are. In fact, there is no proof whatsoever that the world and its fossil layers are millions of years old. No scientist saw dinosaurs die-
Dad!
No I'm serious. Scientists only find the bones in the here and now, and because many of them are evolutionists, they try to fit the story of the dinosaurs into their view.
That's sad. But I thought scientists were smart?
Sure, but they don't know everything. So they have to make stuff up to fit their beliefs. While you and I, we have the facts, straight from the Bible.
I don't want to be a scientist!
Ha! That's ok, son. It's better to be right, than smart. C'mon, wanna learn how to flip burgers like your Dad?
Yeah!

Originally Posted by DRZ400

The fact off the matter is, even with the conclusive evidence put infront of them, most believe the bible to be a FACT no matter how daft the story is.

See, there you go again with the old "straw man" argument - you make an all-encompassing statement that is untrue (although some Christians do take the Bible literally, it is not most), and expect people of faith to challenge your distorted misrepresentation, and when they don't, you use this to further "prove" your fallacious point.

You're a very naughty boy, who isn't very good at debate, as you seem to depend on misrepresentations, agression, and name-calling.

---------- Post added at 12:03 ---------- Previous post was at 11:58 ----------

Originally Posted by Russ B

Have you got any links to back up your notion that the Vatican has altered the Bible? There's a difference between altering it and only using certain books, the main one being (I think it's called) The Gospel of Phillip. That was 'removed' as it mentions Jesus allegedly kissing Mary Magdalene. It doesn't change anything about Jesus, his divinity or his legacy other than the notion that he might have been married to mary, something I certainly don't have a problem with but Catholicism does considering its stance on female priests and leaders.

Also I feel the need to point out again that the Vatican only speaks for Catholics and not the majority of Christians.

Russ, may I point out that the Catholic Church has the largest congregation within the Christian Churches, representing over half of all Christians (but, as a codicil, quite a large number of RC's don't think the Vatican speaks for them ),