The existence of God - Page 58

TheNorm · 09-04-2009, 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreverwar

... live and let live, believe or not believe, have faith or don't have faith, up to the individual; ....

Yes, but...

I can think of many wars fought in the name of religion, but none in the name of "atheism". That really is the problem with organised religion - it can become an exclusive "club", and those in charge can lead the members to commit evil acts against those in another "club". A bit like gang warfare, I suppose.

**Hugh** · 09-04-2009, 12:55

As has been stated many, many times in the thread before, were they religious wars, or were they territorial/economic wars dressed up with religion as the driver?

btw, WW1 16 million dead; WW2 60 million dead, Vietnam War 6 million, - don't remember religion having much to do with those?

TheNorm · 09-04-2009, 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreverwar

As has been stated many, many times in the thread before, were they religious wars, or were they territorial/economic wars dressed up with religion as the driver?...

The latter I expect - but can you quote an example where "atheism" was the driver?

Quote:

...btw, WW1 16 million dead; WW2 60 million dead, Vietnam War 6 million, - don't remember religion having much to do with those?

I don't remember two of those at all.

However. I do recall reading about the padres "blessing" the troops before they went out to kill the enemy. Hardly a "live and let live" attitude, is it?

**Hugh** · 09-04-2009, 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNorm

The latter I expect - but can you quote an example where "atheism" was the driver?

Little bit of a straw man there, imho

since the term of Atheism originated in France in the mid 1500's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNorm

However. I do recall reading about the padres "blessing" the troops before they went out to kill the enemy. Hardly a "live and let live" attitude, is it?

To be fair, it was padres on both sides praying for their own soldiers well-being, they weren't saying "go out and kill the non-believers".

lucy7 · 09-04-2009, 13:15

The live and let live attitude should really apply to all the posters on this thread really!!

(Well most of them!)

DRZ400 · 09-04-2009, 13:17

Modern wars are not the result of religion, but religion plays a major part. All you need to do is turn on the telly and see the carnage going on in Iraq and Afghanistan.

As for religion not starting ANY wars. What about the Crusades? They were bloody, barbaric battles in the name of Christianity.

Quote:

The Crusades were a series of religion-driven military campaigns waged by much of Christian Europe against external and internal opponents. They were fought mainly against Muslims, though campaigns were also directed against pagan Slavs, Jews, Russian and Greek Orthodox Christians, Mongols, Cathars, Hussites, Waldensians, Old Prussians, and political enemies of the popes.[1] Crusaders took vows and were granted an indulgence for past sins.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

TheDaddy · 09-04-2009, 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRZ400

Modern wars are not the result of religion, but religion plays a major part. All you need to do is turn on the telly and see the carnage going on in Iraq and Afghanistan.

As for religion not starting ANY wars. What about the Crusades? They were bloody, barbaric battles in the name of Christianity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

Actually they started because the Seljuk Turks were expanding and threatening Byzantine Constantinople, who incidentally had been excommunicated by Rome, had it been about Religion they wouldn't have bothered helping them. Just because people happen to be of different religions it doesn't automatically follow that any wars that occur are religion based, sure the crusades went on longer and were bloodier that they should have been but as usual there cause was land and greed.

Why don't you bring up the Spanish Inquisition next?

I have just read your article and it basically says what I did, don't you bother reading the links you provide?

DRZ400 · 09-04-2009, 14:07

Even when presented with the facts, the godbots continue to mock and deny them.

---------- Post added at 15:07 ---------- Previous post was at 14:35 ----------

Hey ... I booked today for discussing the Ark.

Dismissing the fact that there isn't enough water in the world for the flood to have happened, lets have a look at the feasibility of the ark.

Using the current figures of alive species, which will be roughly the same.

Mammals 5,416
Birds 9,956
Reptiles 8,240

Roughly 23612 x 2 as 2 of each = 47224 Vertebrates

Insects 950,000 times 2 of each = 1'900'000.

In total 1947224 animals allegedly on the arc.

The logistics of collecting all the animals is impossible let along building a wooden boat that could house them all.

Nice story for children though ... I remember being read told it in Sunday School.

Gary L · 09-04-2009, 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRZ400

Nice story for children though ... I remember being read told it in Sunday School.

The animals went in two by two, Hurrah! Hurrah!

DRZ400 · 09-04-2009, 14:25

For your viewing pleasure http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_I-ZDv9IMA

18 days later "The animals went in 9244 by 9244 hurrah hurrah".

Russ · 09-04-2009, 15:03

Tell me, what is your sole purpose of taking part in this thread?

DRZ400 · 09-04-2009, 15:16

For fairly putting across the views of the atheist that God doesn't exist, using common sense, facts, science, and logic.

Yourself?

Russ · 09-04-2009, 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRZ400

For fairly putting across the views of the atheist that God doesn't exist, using common sense, facts, science, and logic.

But why?

Pierre · 09-04-2009, 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRZ400

For fairly putting across the views of the atheist that God doesn't exist, using common sense, facts, science, and logic.

Yourself?

Firstly, I am not a believer in one almighty deity, but neither would I call myself an atheist. As I view mouth foaming atheists with the same distain as I do religious zealots.

The sentence above however does make me laugh though.

Neither you, I or anyone else can disprove the existence of an almighty superbeing in the same way that it can't be proven that one exists.

To try to do so is a complete waste of time, as this thread is testament to.

I'll keep my options open for now, you see I am a believer of evolution. Arguing ID and creationism "at this level" are IMO just plain silly and to say otherwise exposes you as not being rational.

However, can I say that some superbeing did not create the universe and the rules therein? no I can't.

It is a perfectly arguable point of view that a superbeing created the universe and the laws within that universe thereby creating the very science, facts and logic you are using to disprove the beings very existence.

Therefore for a happy and healthy life, don't worry about it.

Now there are many other discussion points in regards to the pro's and con's of "religion" but that is not what the title of the thread is about.

**Hugh** · 09-04-2009, 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRZ400

For fairly putting across the views of the atheist that God doesn't exist, using common sense, facts, science, and logic.

Yourself?

Strange, you seem to be doing it by vituperation, denigration, and mocking.........

And you always seem to avoid the point that lots of posts (both atheist and non-atheist) have put - you are insisting on measuring something metaphysical by physical means.