The existence of God

[Russ]

a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.

Yep, scientology...

For those with an interest in the God debate, lasts about 1 and a half hours.
http://skepticdave.blogspot.com/2009...st-lennox.html

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by xocemp

For those with an interest in the God debate, lasts about 1 and a half hours.
http://skepticdave.blogspot.com/2009...st-lennox.html

You watch it for us and come back and post the main points.

Thats why I posted "For those with an interest in the God debate", you have no interest, if you did you would watch it. You seem to take more pleasure is winding up as many of the user base in as many topics as you can.
Your agenda is clear, and its boring...

[DRZ400]

Hey, that's a bit harsh.... It's equal, the believers belief winds up the non believers too.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by xocemp

Thats why I posted "For those with an interest in the God debate", you have no interest, if you did you would watch it.

I've already watched it some time ago. I can't remember if I watched it because I was interested or not. I'll have to ask you whether I forced myself to watch it at the time.

You seem to take more pleasure is winding up as many of the user base in as many topics as you can.
Your agenda is clear, and its boring...

and your agenda isn't to point the finger and get me stoned. is it

---------- Post added at 00:15 ---------- Previous post was at 00:14 ----------

Originally Posted by DRZ400

Hey, that's a bit harsh.... It's equal, the believers belief winds up the non believers too.

It's that blindfold

[rogerdraig]

Originally Posted by Russ B

Because in the UK it's not recognised as a religion.

according to the European conventions on freedom of religion ( article 9 ) i think the uk would have to recognise it unfortunately lol

see

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...religions.html

http://www.coe.int/T/d/Kommunikation...-208-GH-Ru.asp

Originally Posted by DRZ400

Hey, that's a bit harsh.... It's equal, the believers belief winds up the non believers too.

I'd call this a childish act.

Let me put this to you:

First you need to define what God is before you can come to any answer and everyone needs the exact same definition which you are never going to get,therefor you have a question that can never have an answerer but only opinions.

To some people there is a God,
to others there are many Gods,
to others there is no God.

Everybody posting is merely stating there own opinion, and is unlikely to change it.

The believers state that because we don't know something, the explanation must be God.
Science can't work it out and logic can't work it out, therefore there must be a supreme being.
There's no evidence whatsoever, simply a lack of explanation.
Just because we don't know something right now, doesn't mean that we won't know it on the future!

Those who vehemently deny the existence of any supreme beings,
are doing exactly the same as those who zealously believe...
that being, putting forward there own point of view without a shred of evidence.
Absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence!

Those of an adult nature feel free to debate with me

Pointing the finger at you for why Gary L?

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by rogermevans

according to the European conventions on freedom of religion ( article 9 ) i think the uk would have to recognise it unfortunately lol

It means that any alleged offenders who ‘abuse’ or ‘threaten’ the Church of Scientology can be charged under the Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006.

I didn't even know there was such an act.

---------- Post added at 00:28 ---------- Previous post was at 00:25 ----------

Originally Posted by xocemp

I'd call this a childish act.

Let me put this to you:

I put it to you that he was joking.

[frogstamper]

Originally Posted by danielf

Jeeesh, I'm a devout atheist, but the way some of my fellows have been behaving in this thread, is beyond the pale. Get a grip/life guys...

My thoughts exactly daniel, there's a right way of putting your thoughts and questions across, but unfortunately many have not chosen that route.

Originally Posted by papa smurf

i read the wiki -its a very strange read its even got space ships .

Yes, but do they have phasers and warp drive.

[DRZ400]

And thus my surprise that religion is even being allowed to be discussed.

Lock the thread and ban all Religion / ID / and like threads.

It just causes arguments.

Originally Posted by DRZ400

Hey, that's a bit harsh.... It's equal, the believers belief winds up the non believers too.

Your a non believer right?
Ok I'll take the stance of an agnostic, I can do this as an atheist because I done my homework, I've looked at it from many angles and I've spoken with men of faith and doubted my own thoughts for many years.


Science is remarkably limited. There is no arguing that it does very well in explaining some of the more macro-reality issues of our universe. But when you get down to the fine details, science becomes increasingly inadequate to answering fundamental questions about the universe. Quantum theory is the best tool set that allows physicists to examine the minute details of matter matter interaction, the basis of materialism. However, it is unable to resolve core concepts, such as integrating properly into relativity theory. Other limits are our biological limits to math. Maths development, imo, is currently lagging in development, as at the fringe it is increasingly hard to use math to prove quantum theory. We just cant wrap our minds around some of the outlier mathematical concepts. What about observer effect in physics, conflated to the Heisenberg uncertainty principle? Because the very act of observation changes the nature of the observed, we cant really know the fundamental nature of anything.
To wrap up, what science has provided to elucidate fundamental questions is inadequate. This is a disappointment because it really is all we have apart from religion. Furthermore, quantum theory, where i think it all boils down to, is our best guess. There is no second answer, its all but impossible to come up with another theory apart from it, and it doesn't even work very well.

That really leaves only one line of thought. We, as humans are biologically limited in intelligence. I really think that we wont be able to come up with a clear answers to deep questions such as is there a god etc, because we don't have the necessary cognitive power, or strategy to do so. At best we will have foggy answers. Science is like a dim light in a large dark room. The closer to the light source the brighter it is. This reflects our understand of things most evident to us; macro-physics, biology, the visible world. The further away from the light, the less clear things become; economics, quantum physics, etc. Then you hit the dark, where the light doesn't reach, or is too scattered. That dark might contain further answers, but we just cant see them. One of these answers is to the question is there really a god/ gods?

This line of reasoning would put me me firmly as an agnostic, where I can just nicely say we can't prove/disprove the existence of God, because we just cant; no one can.

Best way forward is to upgrade our intelligence, either through natural or artificial evolution. Problem with this is; we are of limited intelligence so anything we design will also be limited. Don't know if that will be a show stopper, as we can probably raise that limit every time we evolve. But for now, we cant or haven't evolved to a higher intelligence yet, so we are stuck with the same circular arguments of science vs religion, God vs no God, etc, which has occurred within this very post. Given enough time, and the survival of the homo evolutionary lineage I'm confident we will be able to solve these important questions. But for now, kick back, and enjoy life, and put these questions behind you, because there are no answers.

What say you sir?

[DRZ400]

Edit > 'cut' from God bothering website ... Edit > 'Paste' from God bothering website.

Well done.

Then google my words, oh wise intelligent debate avoiding one

[rogerdraig]

Originally Posted by xocemp

I'd call this a childish act.

Let me put this to you:

First you need to define what God is before you can come to any answer and everyone needs the exact same definition which you are never going to get,therefor you have a question that can never have an answerer but only opinions.

To some people there is a God,
to others there are many Gods,
to others there is no God.

Everybody posting is merely stating there own opinion, and is unlikely to change it.

The believers state that because we don't know something, the explanation must be God.
Science can't work it out and logic can't work it out, therefore there must be a supreme being.
There's no evidence whatsoever, simply a lack of explanation.
Just because we don't know something right now, doesn't mean that we won't know it on the future!

Those who vehemently deny the existence of any supreme beings,
are doing exactly the same as those who zealously believe...
that being, putting forward there own point of view without a shred of evidence.
Absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence!

Those of an adult nature feel free to debate with me

Pointing the finger at you for why Gary L?

the "prove it" statements wind up some on either side

i can say it doesnt bother me i believe what i believe what others belive doesnt bother me but i will post what i belive and why if asked but i am not bothered if people dont agree as i am not asking them to just stating answers to questions on what i believe me lol