The existence of God

[papa smurf]

had a couple of ladies knock on my door Sunday after noon [the kingdom hall is at the end of my street]
unfortunately i was in the grasp of a higher power [formula 1] and jenson and lewis needed me more than the church did, they gave me a pamphlet which i promised to read ,and after the race i read it then i screwed it into a ball and binned it my views unchanged ..

oh and i still wonder which part of doorstep callers are not welcome is difficult to understand .

[lucy7]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

had a couple of ladies knock on my door Sunday after noon [the kingdom hall is at the end of my street]
unfortunately i was in the grasp of a higher power [formula 1] and jenson and lewis needed me more than the church did, they gave me a pamphlet which i promised to read ,and after the race i read it then i screwed it into a ball and binned it my views unchanged ..

oh and i still wonder which part of doorstep callers are not welcome is difficult to understand .

Hope you put it in the recylce bin papa!
We were watching the race as well!

Maybe you should say no doorstep callers including Jehovahs Witnesses knock at my door please?? Most are respectful, and will just go on their way if you express a wish not to chat at any given time.
My views didnt get changed either by reading a magazine, took a lot more than that!

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by mischievious

This view is far too two dimensional. Please could you define the GOD that you don't believe exists????

Imaginary. made up. not real.

Your statement makes claims of your fictional GOD which in order to appraise your stance requires an explanation.

The statement of I think man created God?
Which word are you emphasing too much on in that? and of which you feel needs an explanation?

---------- Post added at 09:59 ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 ----------

Originally Posted by mischievious

As with Gary?



So you're saying if you don't pray, don't expect anything?

I don't know. that's the message I seem to be getting from some. something about God is there he just needs you to ask. testing your faith.

Regarding the "Big Bang" thing surely you can see you are attributing Mortal concepts to a possibly immortal deity? The rules simply don't apply.

Though it is possible that the reason for GOD's omniscience is a direct result of unwilling participation of the original experiment/project... i.e. he/she/it was sucked in and scattered accross the universe

Sounds like an expirement that went wrong

---------- Post added at 10:11 ---------- Previous post was at 09:59 ----------

Originally Posted by lucy7

When I saw this post and the crutch, it made me laugh!

I get all sorts when I go knocking on doors, have not been offended once by non believers personal attacks on my belief in God. When respect is used to talk to others about God, people will listen, They may not believe or understand what you are on about, but some seeds may be planted!

I'd listen if there was a size 10/12 blonde stunner standing there at my door too

It may help some posters' propositions if they read the (populist) definition of the Big Bang, which explains that there actually was "something there" before the initial event -
" In the most common models, the universe was filled homogeneously and isotropically with an incredibly high energy density, huge temperatures and pressures, and was very rapidly expanding and cooling. Approximately 10−37 seconds into the expansion, a phase transition caused a cosmic inflation, during which the universe grew exponentially."

btw, "Big Bang" was a radio-friendly term coined by (Sir) Fred Hoyle, not an actual description - this graphic timeline may help, as it shows it was approx 300 million years after the event that the first galaxies and stars form.

Originally Posted by papa smurf

and i think if my post hadn't hit a raw nerve you would have simply ignored it,now what does that say about the way you live your life ?..

That's poor. We're on a discussion forum, you should expect responses as the norm, unless someone has you on 'ignore' - and I don't have anyone on ignore.

---------- Post added at 10:58 ---------- Previous post was at 10:26 ----------

Originally Posted by frogstamper

Chris please don't take this as being offensive in any way, but a question I've always been interested in asking people of faith is, "how are you or others so aware of what God actually wants"?
Is for example the above post opinions that you have deduced that God wants from say talking to other theologians or reading the bible or the like, or is it more than that.
One of the reasons I'm asking is that I've seen quite a few religious programs lately on TV whereby a group of people from varying religions all claim to know what God wants, surely they can't all be right.?

It's not offensive at all. But are you asking about comparative religion or about different ideas within the same faith? If the latter, I think the differences you see on TV are probably not as vast as you think. TV needs to create opposition and tension, even in 'factual' programming, otherwise there's no drama and nobody's interested (allegedly).

God has first and foremost given us the Bible. The Christian's first responsibility is to live according to the teaching in the New Testamant, and in the Old Testament as illuminated by the New (which is why we don't stone adulterers etc). If you find a group of people picketing a gay funeral with placards you can show them from the Bible quite easily (if they will listen) why they may not be behaving appropriately.

On a smaller scale we Christians pray about all the day to day stuff and trust God for answers, but it's difficult to explain in a few words on a forum posts how that works and how he answers. He's real, very real, I can tell you that.

Beyond that, I guess you could ask how you know which is the right religion? That's a whole essay in its own right and not something I have time to do justice to at the moment!

Just to add something bizarre that happened this week.I was covering an lesson about Easter and it's origins..and the issue came up that many of the class (11-12) (parrotting something from somewhere) told me Jesus was imaginary and not real...

So as an atheist I found myself telling them that although God maybe considered by some people not to be real that in fact Jesus was a real person with many historical references of people who were acknowledge as real, writing about him in historical documents that are recognised as being authentic by historians of this time..

So it it that some people have just decided that despite the 'historical' evidence that the whole issue of Christ and God is imaginary and not real?

As a teacher I am rather worried at this blurring of facts with fiction..

Originally Posted by Maggy J

So it it that some people have just decided that despite the 'historical' evidence that the whole issue of Christ and God is imaginary and not real?

As a teacher I am rather worried at this blurring of facts with fiction..

It's not surprising, unfortunately. Jesus is inextricably tied up with a religion, and because most families don't do any religious observance at all any more, people tend to just categorise the religion as irrelevant and its components and characters as imaginary.

I don't think the school curriculum has placed much emphasis on the historicity of Jesus in the same way that it does for Mohammed or Siddhartha Gautama because previously Jesus actual historical existence was a 'given'.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Just to add something bizarre that happened this week.I was covering an lesson about Easter and it's origins..and the issue came up that many of the class (11-12) (parrotting something from somewhere) told me Jesus was imaginary and not real...

So as an atheist I found myself telling them that although God maybe considered by some people not to be real that in fact Jesus was a real person with many historical references of people who were acknowledge as real, writing about him in historical documents that are recognised as being authentic by historians of this time..

So it it that some people have just decided that despite the 'historical' evidence that the whole issue of Christ and God is imaginary and not real?

As a teacher I am rather worried at this blurring of facts with fiction..

I believe that there may have been a man named Jesus. but I believe that he was just as normal as all the others around at that time. normal and not magic. and not the son of God.

Me saying the word God doesn't mean that I am now saying there is a God for someone to be a son to.

Originally Posted by Gary L

I believe that there may have been a man named Jesus. but I believe that he was just as normal as all the others around at that time. normal and not magic.

But you know he was real whatever else you believe..the children I was talking to told me he was imaginary like the tooth fairy.


However they were prepared to believe in the Easter Bunny..

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

But you know he was real whatever else you believe..the children I was talking to told me he was imaginary like the tooth fairy.


However they were prepared to believe in the Easter Bunny..

That's children for you
Did you ask if they thought God was real?

[LondonRoad]

Originally Posted by Gary L

I believe that there may have been a man named Jesus. but I believe that he was just as normal as all the others around at that time. normal and not magic. and not the son of God.

He can hardly be described as being normal. Whether you believe he is the son of God or not, his short time on earth can hardly be described as normal. How many normal people in the last couple of thousand years have had screeds written about their life and had such a significant effect on people that he is still important to millions of so long after his death.

I've never heard of a major religion being built around all those other normal people around at that time.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by harmitage

He can hardly be described as being normal. Whether you believe he is the son of God or not, his short time on earth can hardly be described as normal. How many normal people in the last couple of thousand years have had screeds written about their life and had such a significant effect on people that he is still important to millions of so long after his death.

I've never heard of a major religion being built around all those other normal people around at that time.

Do you think he was magic then?
He could have been normal at the time, and it was only a graduation of exaggerations built up over time that lead us to believe he was more than normal.

How do we know that Jesus wasn't just a made up character to reinforce the existence of God?
The significant effect is just time and the build up.

A child is born into the world everyday. and have been for the last 2 thousand years. each and everyone of them could if taught be part of the such significant effect on people that makes him still important to millions or so. long after his death.

Originally Posted by Gary L

That's children for you
Did you ask if they thought God was real?

Being an athiest for some time I sidestepped the issue..they have a right to believe what they like about a deity.However when dealing with an actual historical figure I'm on steadier ground.

[papa smurf]

did this Jesus character believe he was the son of God ? or is that just a myth passed through the ages .

Originally Posted by Gary L

Do you think he was magic then?
He could have been normal at the time, and it was only a graduation of exaggerations built up over time that lead us to believe he was more than normal.

How do we know that Jesus wasn't just a made up character to reinforce the existence of God?
The significant effect is just time and the build up.

Because of several historical references about him by people of his time who had no truck with the Hebrew vision of one god and in fact were very much against him and what he was claiming.There are just too much reference about him for him to have been made up.

Unlike Robin Hood or Arthur who may well be several people rolled into one legend...

---------- Post added at 13:08 ---------- Previous post was at 13:06 ----------

Originally Posted by papa smurf

did this Jesus character believe he was the son of God ? or is that just a myth passed through the ages .

Well he peed off his fellow Jews who incidentally in this day and age claim he existed even if he wasn't their Messiah...