Legal Obligation?

[chickendippers]

VM offer a 30 day money back guarantee, if you don't get the speed you pay for then you can leave without penalty. If you're outside that then follow the complaints procedure: http://allyours.virginmedia.com/pdf/...ctice_0208.pdf

[BenMcr]

28 days MBG not 30

[haydnwalker]

Originally Posted by Milambar

AFAIK, the FoIA only covers public companies and agencies (aka, government run). Virgin Media is not a public company.

Yeah, I am aware of that it was more of a "Wouldn't it be nice if..." kind of question

[caph]

Originally Posted by haydnwalker

No..because they can provide all services if stated its available in your area... YOUR meaning is different in the sense of "20mb and only getting 1mb"

They sell three tiers (or did when I signed up), up to 2Mb, up to 10Mb and up to 20Mb. If I only get up to 2Mb on the up to 20Mb package then they are not able to provide the level of service I signed up for. They can only provide me with the up to 2Mb package.

Originally Posted by haydnwalker

If they say they can provide the 20Mb Tier then they can provide you with an up to 20Mb service. As has previously been stated, it is a contended service and their could me many other people sharing your bandwidth (just as it is on ADSL)

That's the whole point of this thread. How far can they push the up to and is there a point at which it becomes illegal?

Originally Posted by haydnwalker

As far as I'm aware if you aren't getting anything near the tier of service you pay for, then can offer you a tier closer with the savings that come with it - but are probably not obgliated to do so.

Again, my point. They don't do this unless pushed and even then it's up to the customer to chase, but should they be obligated to do this? Anyone know?

Originally Posted by haydnwalker

Fair point - but they are a business - and its all about the marketing... Do your research before signing up

Happened after I signed up so that's not relevant.

Originally Posted by haydnwalker

Its not all like that... at least, not in my experience with them.

Good for you, long may it continue. Doesn't help me much though...

Originally Posted by haydnwalker

Are you trying to find a casing point to make all of VMs departments customer-facing?

The only people that can fix my problem, I cannot talk to. I've never mentioned any other department, and I can't say I'm bothered about any other dept to be honest. So the answer is no.

Originally Posted by haydnwalker

How do you know?

I just rang Virgin sales from my mobile and asked what speed I could expect in my area if I signed up for 20Mb (obviously no postcode because I'm still househunting!). Guess the answer. It involved lots affirmatives and plenty of mention of fibre optic broadband. Did you really expect anything else???????

Originally Posted by haydnwalker

Have you been to all the houses connected to your UBR and asked them all to do a Speed Test?

The UBR is constantly chronically oversubscribed all the time - in the words of a Virgin Media newsgroup technician "minimal throughput". Why would I need to run speed tests if I've already been told this information?

You sure do ask a lot of questions!!!

Cheers for that Sloman. I'll give it a go.

[moroboshi]

It's clear we need some action from the governent on this. ISPs need to be forced to give a minimum speed to their customers, and it shouldn't be much less than the sold as speed. So for a 20mbit connection, if they ever dip below 18 mbit there should be automatic compensation and penalties.

I'm supposedly on 20mbit from Virgin but it's often below 0.5mbit. After countless emails and phone calls they've finally admitted my area is over subscribed. Their service is a joke, and their ridiculous mother of all broadband adverts should be banned as they clearly are selling something which they cannot deliver.

[Retrovertigo]

Oh it's the mother of all broadband alright - they just missed the last part off mother that rhymes with trucker

[Horace]

Originally Posted by moroboshi

It's clear we need some action from the governent on this. ISPs need to be forced to give a minimum speed to their customers, and it shouldn't be much less than the sold as speed. So for a 20mbit connection, if they ever dip below 18 mbit there should be automatic compensation and penalties.

And how exactly, are you going to measure that? If you want a guaranteed level of service then you're looking at the wrong provider, £1000 a month might just get you what you're requesting.

[moroboshi]

Originally Posted by Horace

And how exactly, are you going to measure that? If you want a guaranteed level of service then you're looking at the wrong provider, £1000 a month might just get you what you're requesting.

Easy, you work out how much bandwidth an area can sustain, then look at how many subscribers there are. You then assume they are all maxing out a 20mbit connection and see if there is enough bandwidth to keep them happy.

The way ISPs operate is nothing short of criminal. Can you imagine if you bought a TV only to find out it could only give you sound or colour for a few hours a day? Or perhaps a car which could only do 15mph between the hours of 4pm-11pm? But hey, the car would be sold as 'up to 100mph!'.

[jamiefrost]

Originally Posted by moroboshi

Easy, you work out how much bandwidth an area can sustain, then look at how many subscribers there are. You then assume they are all maxing out a 20mbit connection and see if there is enough bandwidth to keep them happy.

The way ISPs operate is nothing short of criminal. Can you imagine if you bought a TV only to find out it could only give you sound or colour for a few hours a day? Or perhaps a car which could only do 15mph between the hours of 4pm-11pm? But hey, the car would be sold as 'up to 100mph!'.

I hear what you are saying but both Tvs and cars are sold using different buisness models (by the way I can't get up to my cars top speed i peaks times legally and physically).

Broadband is sold with contention ratios, the only reason you get broadband as cheap as you do is because of this. I have no idea how much it would cost to guarantee a 20Mb connection, but I guess I would be able to afford a few mubnutes per month.

JJ

[haydnwalker]

Just found this on Enta.nets website

10Mbps of bandwidth from just £599* per month. Alternatively if your requirements are greater and scalability is key, our 100Mbps leased line solution starts at only £799* per month.

The * means

*Subject to survey and dependent on serving exchange and distance from the exchange

so even a leased line cannot guarantee bandwidth - even uncontended!

[BenMcr]

No company can guarantee a connection outside their core network

The way I see it if Virgin sell you a 20Mbit connection and can prove that you get that speed within the Virgin network then they are providing you the product they sold you.

If however you are on 20Mbit and you get 2Mbit or less within the network, then Virgin would need to look at it and offer compensation as it would not be the product they sold you

[hedgie]

Originally Posted by moroboshi

Easy, you work out how much bandwidth an area can sustain, then look at how many subscribers there are. You then assume they are all maxing out a 20mbit connection and see if there is enough bandwidth to keep them happy.

The way ISPs operate is nothing short of criminal. Can you imagine if you bought a TV only to find out it could only give you sound or colour for a few hours a day? Or perhaps a car which could only do 15mph between the hours of 4pm-11pm? But hey, the car would be sold as 'up to 100mph!'.

The trouble is is if you do this you will end up with an over engineered network that is prohibitively expensive. If you think about the domestic wiring in your house each socket is capable of upto 13A in isolation, but the ring main circuit is probably only 32A. As engineers we call this diversity, basically you assume an average demand and then provide protection for the network. In the case of domesitc wiring the protection is the circuit fuse or breaker. For the VM network it is the STM policy. You might not like it, but as AFAIK it is essential if the network providers are to provide a commercially viable service.

Comments ?

[Retrovertigo]

So basically it boils down to those who are getting the worst service, are subsidising those areas where people can get 20meg all day long?

[Magilla]

Originally Posted by moroboshi

It's clear we need some action from the governent on this. ISPs need to be forced to give a minimum speed to their customers, and it shouldn't be much less than the sold as speed. So for a 20mbit connection, if they ever dip below 18 mbit there should be automatic compensation and penalties.

AIUI an unnacceptable level of service would be if you recieve lower service than the level of service of the tarrif below the one you're on.

Originally Posted by moroboshi

I'm supposedly on 20mbit from Virgin but it's often below 0.5mbit. After countless emails and phone calls they've finally admitted my area is over subscribed. Their service is a joke, and their ridiculous mother of all broadband adverts should be banned as they clearly are selling something which they cannot deliver.

Complain the the ISPA, then cancel your service and await the call. It's the only way anything happens. You're wasting your breath doing anything else.

[BarFly]

Originally Posted by hedgie

The trouble is is if you do this you will end up with an over engineered network that is prohibitively expensive. If you think about the domestic wiring in your house each socket is capable of upto 13A in isolation, but the ring main circuit is probably only 32A. As engineers we call this diversity, basically you assume an average demand and then provide protection for the network. In the case of domesitc wiring the protection is the circuit fuse or breaker. For the VM network it is the STM policy. You might not like it, but as AFAIK it is essential if the network providers are to provide a commercially viable service.

Comments ?

Ahh the old common sense arguement, i like it

its a nice way of explaining it..

People also need to realise that high speed broadband isnt a god given right & is not an essential utility, VM is there to make money from a contended service.

There's plenty of suppliers who can give you upto 2mb at lot lower price.