steve bettley sacked..do we have the right?

Much as I dislike the ethos of the BNP they are a legitimate political party and I fail to see that being a member should bar you from holding any job but yes if you discriminate against people whilst doing your job then yes you should be losing that job..

Getting rid of BNP members might seem like the police force are seen to be doing something about 'institutional racism but there are many police who aren't members of the BNP and yet do discriminate whilst doing the job who may well not be fired.

If you are a member of a legitimate political party, it should not be a bar to holding a job - if your job has terms stating you cannot be an active member (like the forces used to have, don't know about now), you know what you are getting into.

[punky]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

But his actions have spoken for themselves, by him joining a racist organisation.

Just because you think and want it to be a racist organisation, doesn't mean it is. Whether you like it or not the BNP is a legal political party. Unless you want to go down the political route of countries like Zimbabwe and just ban any political parties that have a different ideology.

His disciplinary record is private and confidential, this is why you can't find anything.

Yes, because private and confidential information held on databases is normally witheld from the public domain. Oh wait, here it is (thanks to nomadking):

'In determining their findings, the panel confirmed there was no evidence that PC Bettley had ever displayed any racist views or discriminatory behaviour in the workplace.

'The panel have also heard character evidence, including evidence from officers from minority backgrounds, and have accepted that PC Bettley has always acted professionally and has never demonstrated any racist behaviour.

He is that racist, ethnic minority officers are standing up for him.

[rogerdraig]

[quote=frogstamper;34760673]

Originally Posted by martyh

I've posted this question twice now martyh with no response, so I'll give it one last shot.
"Would it be acceptable for a Muslim police officer to be a member of a "legal" Islamic hate group".

no it wouldnt the same regulations would prohibit that to

[BBKing]

I do not believe that subscribers of such abhorrent views can hold positions in an organization that must reflect London’s population, and must treat all communities equally- particularly when exercising powers of arrest and detention.

Go on, guess who said that.

[BBKing]

What ho! He's got it!

Not difficult really, I'm just going to start reading Tory Troll every morning ... that way I should guess half the subjects you're going to post on, before you post them.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by martyh

my point is that if anyone wants to join a political organisation no matter how unsavioury then they should be aloud to as a matter of basic freedom but if they are proven to abuse the trust or authority that goes with that position then they should be dealt with by the courts or disciplinary procedures
Ithink it's a shame that a good officer has been lost to the force when they need as many as they can get

No one is stopping anyone from joining the BNP (except the BNP). Steve Bettley can join the BNP if he wants. He just can't be a police officer as well. The Merseyside Police Authority have explained the reasons for his dismissal and that should be enough. If this term in his contract was unfair, don't you think it would have been challenged by now?

---------- Post added at 13:20 ---------- Previous post was at 13:06 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

he didn't join his brother did it as part of a family offer to get free membership this hasn't been disputed so we have to take it as true

Yes it has been disputed, by the MPA. If this was the case, he has had nearly six months to present this evidence. He hasn't, so the only conclusion is that he joined of his own free will. What happened to his mail, all the e-mails, his membership card and welcome pack, during this time? If a "family member" enrolled him without his consent, the family member has committed a criminal offence.

the BNP is not a banned organisation if it was banned then no-one would be able to vote for them

It is a proscribed organisation by the home office.

just because someone joins a political party it does not mean they support all their ideals.Alot of the general population are becomming increasingly sympathetic to SOME of the BNP's ideals whether they admit it or not that doesn't mean they want to kick all non whites out of the country

Nonsense. Are you telling us that people join this party even though they know full well of its racist agenda, its racist policies, manifesto and constitution. The fact that it blocks blacks, Asians and Muslims from joining. Do they ignore this and still join them?

People join this party because they are racist, there can be no other reason.

---------- Post added at 13:29 ---------- Previous post was at 13:20 ----------

Originally Posted by punky

Just because you think and want it to be a racist organisation, doesn't mean it is. Whether you like it or not the BNP is a legal political party. Unless you want to go down the political route of countries like Zimbabwe and just ban any political parties that have a different ideology.

But they are a racist party. I don't understand why that is in contention. They have a racist manifesto. They have a racist constitution. They have a racist memebrship recruitment policy. How much more racism do you need, in order to be called a racist?

[punky]

The BNP aren't a proscribed organisation: http://security.homeoffice.gov.uk/le...rrorist-groups

And if the BNP are so racist, then why, especially in our ethnicity-sensitive climate do they just ban it outright?

You don't like the BNP but they are still a legal party and have as much right to exist and do business as the Labour party. For them to be racist I need some more legal censure than just taking your word for it.

Originally Posted by punky

The BNP aren't a proscribed organisation: http://security.homeoffice.gov.uk/le...rrorist-groups

And if the BNP are so racist, then why, especially in our ethnicity-sensitive climate do they just ban it outright?

You don't like the BNP but they are still a legal party and have as much right to exist and do business as the Labour party. For them to be racist I need some more legal censure than just taking your word for it.

The BNP are racist, people try to add so many shades of gray to racism that we can't use the word anymore without someone saying it's political correctness. The BNP are seriously racist, they still want England to be for the 'indegious people' by which they mean anglo-saxon. They only recently dropped their policy of discoraging Mixed Race marriages and still dislike it.

They often win votes by using local incidents and blaming them on a local minority, many times they were not actually commited by that minority and police protests are ignored.

[punky]

But you can't just say they are racist and that's that.

I'm not trying to be difficult here. But its the difference between saying someone is guilty because his prints were on the weapon. He isn't. He is innocent until the courts give him an impartial trial and then finds him guilty.

Until the BNP the is banned through due process you can't just pretend its illegal and therefore banned.

I'm not arguing in favour of the BNP per se, but rights and due process apply to everyone. There are people here who are left-wing enough to ought to appreciate that.

Originally Posted by punky

But you can't just say they are racist and that's that.

I'm not trying to be difficult here. But its the difference between saying someone is guilty because his prints were on the weapon. He isn't. He is innocent until the courts give him an impartial trial and then finds him guilty.

Until the BNP the is banned through due process you can't just pretend its illegal and therefore banned.

I'm not arguing in favour of the BNP per se, but rights and due process apply to everyone. There are people here who are left-wing enough to ought to appreciate that.

Well there is no such thing as a conviction for being a Racist, there is inciting racial hatred (which Nick Griffin was on trial for) but we can't have an official verdict on their racism?

I guess it's your view or not but they limit membership to those who they consider 'British' (i.e British heritage and White) and wish to apply that to the nation. They, in a vain attempt to appear nice, said they would pay for the others to go back to their own countries. Of course, A lot of minorities are British, so where would they go?

[punky]

The executive and legal branches of our country have the power to ban the organisation, for amongst other things, being racist or being a terrorist organisation.

The fact that our government doesn't probably means the evidence isn't as clear as people would like to believe, and saying "I believe they are racist because of X, so there" doesn't wash in court.

Come on Damien, you're trying to paint me as either racist or stupid (or probably both), but i'm suprised that someone with a pedigree as liberal as yours is on the reactionary side here. Everyone deserves due process including those you dismiss as racist.

Originally Posted by punky

The executive and legal branches of our country have the power to ban the organisation, for amongst other things, being racist or being a terrorist organisation.

The fact that our government doesn't probably means the evidence isn't as clear as people would like to believe, and saying "I believe they are racist because of X, so there" doesn't wash in court.

Come on Damien, you're trying to paint me as either racist or stupid (or probably both), but i'm suprised that someone with a pedigree as liberal as yours is on the reactionary side here. Everyone deserves due process including those you dismiss as racist.

I don't see where I was trying to paint you as racist or stupid. I can't see where I even hinted at such an accusation but sorry if that was the case, it was not my intention.

I don't want them banned, but I still feel free to label them racist because of their policies and their actions. I see no conflict with my political views in that. I am not the only one to dismiss them as racist either; there have been countless undercover investigations, statements from former high-level members and their own constitution (re: The White Britain thing).

The 'due process' issue is redundant here as there is no criminal trail for being racist, nor should there be. I don't view being racist as a criminal offensive and I am not suggesting they be thrown in jail for such a offensive based on my personal belief that they are a racist party.