The existence of God - Page 5

CHiLL · 19-03-2009, 15:41

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Originally Posted by papa smurf

cant agree .
if you don't believe in god you have to look harder for the answers ,and you also have to make the best of the life you have instead of waiting for the mythical afterlife, the easy answer is its Gods will ,well that's my ten peneth

Well, I don't believe there's a God, and my life is going great.

papa smurf · 19-03-2009, 15:44

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Originally Posted by CHiLL

Well, I don't believe there's a God, and my life is going great.

thats great. i dont believe either and lifes what you make it imo

wow two posts from atheists that should stir up the other side .

TheDon · 19-03-2009, 16:56

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Originally Posted by lucy7

That will be people with no real bible knowledge then!!!

Bible knowledge doesn't answer why there HAS TO BE more to existence than just life on this planet, it just suggests that there is.

It's perfectly possible for existence to start with birth and end at death. Saying that there has to be something more is just a way of saying that you don't want this to be all there is because it'd ultimately mean life is meaningless.

idi banashapan · 19-03-2009, 18:26

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Originally Posted by Chris

Nor am I, on that basis. What you're describing there isn't really faith, it's fire insurance.

Ha! I like that idea, and it appears very true. never thought of it like that!

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Originally Posted by Chris

But medical science even today would have a hard time explaining any of the healings or raisings-from-the-dead that are attributed to Jesus.

hmmm, possibly. but if we look into things such as 'wakes' when people die... this ritual came about from times a-past, when plates and tankards were forged from pewter. the crudely made mead and and acidic foods (such as tomatoes, etc) would react to the alloy casuing poison to the consumer. this sometimes left them so unconscious with such low metabolic functions that it was very hard to tell they were alive. it became apparent to the people that sometimesthey were burying alive persons, known only by exhuming coffins with scratch marks on the inside. when it was realised what was going on, people would hold a wake (quite literally waiting for them to wake up) whereby family / friends would gather around the layed out body with food and drink and sit with the body to see if they woke up. this also lead to 'saved by the bell' and it became common practice to feed a pull into coffins tied around a dead persons wrist with a bell up top so that if they woke up, the bell would chime. this also required someone to stay in the graveyard at night incase a bell went off and thus we have 'the graveyard shift' in reference to working nights.

who is to say something similar did not happen to Jesus?

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Originally Posted by Chris

No - faith is very much a part of life in the USA, for example, despite the material wealth and the lead that country has in many advanced areas of research and manufacture. On a world scale, faith is very much a current issue.

as a religious person, do you think that global faith in God would be shattered if science revealed we were not alone in the universe?

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Originally Posted by Chris

Atheism, or various kinds of agnostcism, are very prevalent in 21st century UK, but we are more of an exception than the rule in this. It's easy for people engaging in this sort of debate to lose sight of that.

why do you think this is? what is different about us to, say, the USA? why is religion so institutionalised over there?

Thank you for your time, Chris. I apologise if you are tired of answering questions like these, but then I suppose if it's something close to your heart, you'll never tire of talking about it. I'm in no way trying to poo-poo God, religion or faith, nor am I trying to make believers question their own views. Religion is just one of those things I find difficult to grasp because I tend to be a very logical thinker, whereby a+b=c - religion falls outside of that and is souly based on a faith, which totally ignores logic and comes only from within.

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Originally Posted by Slyone

God no aliens yes

care to expand on that?

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Originally Posted by lucy7

Very very well!!

agreed

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Originally Posted by foreverwar

That's a bit harsh on the OP......

hey... I saw that!

mischievious · 19-03-2009, 19:40

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Originally Posted by Bender

as a religious person, do you think that global faith in God would be shattered if science revealed we were not alone in the universe?

I don't think that requires a religious person to answer, christianity has seen many changes over the years from its inception that I suspect that it would simply evolve to accomodate such an event. It may even be hailed as a new chapter in the Bible. Just because something is based upon faith does not logically mean that it is inflexible. The rules of logic dictate the if you start with a false premise (I read "that" post it near took my head off thanks for that one) e.g. in this case that a person of faith is unable to change or mould their faith to fit in with new evidence. You will certainly end up with a logically false conclusion though it will have still been logical.

For example it has been argued that religion is not based upon logic or even reason and therefore you cannot assess it as such. This standpoint however is talking about the impossibility of assessing "Faith" not the events, evidence e.g. the Bible, historic evidence which all contribute to such a belief. These things can be assesed within a logical framework.

My only gripe with religion is why in the purest sense of the word does each religion claim ownership of the one true god, I am open here as I may be wrong???. Since God is indefinable and only attributed certain "human" characteristics in order to get to grips with the concept it is possible that God is all of them and that they are all right!

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I was just checking a couple of Bible timelines, from 6th day of creation nothing till 3999BC that is one hell of a day off

http://www.abiblestudy.com/part1.html

Though this one suggests creation etc. happened in 4004 BC

http://www.wordsight.org/btl/000_btl-fp.htm

We know that's not true and I believe is generally accepted as such.

tweetypie/8 · 19-03-2009, 21:49

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Originally Posted by downquark1

Is the question no god or no afterlife?

If there was no afterlife you would not "find" it not there.

there are plenty of people a heck of a lot better educated than me and a lot better off than me who beleive in god and the hereafter,me personally i put it down to faith and i have no problems with it,i am by no means a holy joe but i do beleive in prayer and faith and where i come from i firmly beleive that faith kept my family safe during the troubles,every man / woman are entitled to their own beleifs and i have no time for people ramming religion down peoples throats live and let live.

mischievious · 19-03-2009, 22:31

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Originally Posted by tweetypie/8

i have no time for people ramming religion down peoples throats live and let live.

Like the people who knock at the door

They ruined my breakfast once, I was making a lovely fried breakfast... Not wanting to be rude I tried diplomacy... conculsion was black breakfast.

Gary L · 19-03-2009, 22:32

If there was a God.....
If there was a God that phrase wouldn't exist.

Russ · 19-03-2009, 22:33

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Originally Posted by tweetypie/8

i have no time for people ramming religion down peoples throats live and let live.

And I have no time for people who ram atheism down people's throats.

mischievious · 19-03-2009, 22:37

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Originally Posted by Russ B

And I have no time for people who ram atheism down people's throats.

Though I have never heard of an atheist going door to door?

Russ · 19-03-2009, 22:41

I didn't say they did. Tweetiepie didn't mention anything about knocking on doors. But you only have to read any discussion forum about religion to find the atheist queuing up to tell everyone how we're all deluded, that there's "no God" etc.

Gary L · 19-03-2009, 22:43

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Originally Posted by Russ B

And I have no time for people who ram atheism down people's throats.

It's fun to watch them as they pass each other on your drive as the one's going and the other one's coming though

mischievious · 19-03-2009, 22:48

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Originally Posted by Gary L

If there was a God.....
If there was a God that phrase wouldn't exist.

Unless you agree with the idea that God is letting the whole freedom thing run its course as a test to see which of us will remain faithful?

Seems an odd test though if that is what it is.... Maybe God will accept us all in the end seeing as he gave us free will, logic, rational though and reasoning as gifts. Seems a little spiteful that he should grant such gifts and then punish us for not believing having given us a very tenuous grasp of the facts.

I believe since we have been granted such "gifts" we are meant to use them. I admit I sit on the fence, however I also have "faith" that since we are obviously meant to use these qualities they are not sins if a god should exist, I also have faith that no matter what, unless I am evil of purpose that I shall be admitted into heaven should it exist despite any belief that I hold during life.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

I didn't say they did. Tweetiepie didn't mention anything about knocking on doors. But you only have to read any discussion forum about religion to find the atheist queuing up to tell everyone how we're all deluded, that there's "no God" etc.

Russ I was not taking issue, perhaps we both made flipant comments. I do not wish a war of words but an exchange of views. Though many believe that no resolution can be made it does not mean that we cannot respect each others opinion.

Russ · 19-03-2009, 22:52

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Originally Posted by mischievious

Russ I was not taking issue, perhaps we both made flipant comments. I do not wish a war of words but an exchange of views. Though many believe that no resolution can be made it does not mean that we cannot respect each others opinion.

That's all very well in theory but in practise it's a little different. Many atheists feel totally justified in telling the world that there's no God (it's their view, they're entitled to it) but if someone with faith proclaims their belief in God then suddenly they're "ramming it down people's throats" etc.

Not that there's supposed to be a competition but atheists get away with far more than people of faith when it comes to professing their beliefs.

Gary L · 19-03-2009, 22:53

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Originally Posted by mischievious

Unless you agree with the idea that God is letting the whole freedom thing run its course as a test to see which of us will remain faithful?

Seems an odd test though if that is what it is.... Maybe God will accept us all in the end seeing as he gave us free will, logic, rational though and reasoning as gifts. Seems a little spiteful that he should grant such gifts and then punish us for not believing having given us a very tenuous grasp of the facts.

Well if he don't let me in, I can always quote the Bible and the bit about forgiving and forgetting to him