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Legal action taken against Virgin Media throttling practices
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Old 13-03-2009, 17:24   #256
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Re: Legal action taken against Virgin Media throttling practices

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stabhappy View Post
Definately; but it is not an excuse. I'm sure Ben has things that he could be doing other than defending himself here.
Hes not defending himself hes defending a company he works for as he has no services to vm himself yet chooses to post in topics about customers getting throttled but hasnt had the pleasure or experience of falling under them.

All the comments by people are made towards the company and not the individual we havent personaly attacked him just took his comments about company policies e.t.c and quoted them, like i said above if he hasnt actually experienced it for himself and then says stuff off which seems hostile if it dosent fit into the vm way of thinking it is wrong.

Same attitude has been seen time and again in various posts by ben where vm company policy or rules has been attacked, i think the bloke would be fine in real life but carrying company policy around on a forum out of work hours tends to make people snappy for some reason.
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Old 13-03-2009, 17:28   #257
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Re: Legal action taken against Virgin Media throttling practices

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Originally Posted by Mike_A View Post
Ben, as a matter of interest, do Virgin Media adopt deep packet inspection to identify packets for delaying/taking apart as part of throttling methodology?
No, as far as I am aware Virgin Cable does not use DPI in any shape or form for the STM
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Old 13-03-2009, 17:29   #258
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Re: Legal action taken against Virgin Media throttling practices

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Originally Posted by Stabhappy View Post
Just as a note, I am suprised at some of the personal attacks at BenMcr. You can attack the company as much as you like but Ben is just a member of the public like anyone else, seems like you're all ready to assume he's representing VM.
There are no personal attacks at Ben. he is saying something and people are talking to him back. I am always reading this lately where it seems as though if it's an employee you're talking to it has to be seen as an attack. it can't be anything else.
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Old 13-03-2009, 17:30   #259
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Re: Legal action taken against Virgin Media throttling practices

Can i ask what the profilling mentioned in the revised (aka since virgin rebrand) t&c's is consisted of then ben as everyone keeps ducking the question?.
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Old 13-03-2009, 17:36   #260
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Re: Legal action taken against Virgin Media throttling practices

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Originally Posted by Bonglet View Post
Can i ask what the profilling mentioned in the revised (aka since virgin rebrand) t&c's is consisted of then ben as everyone keeps ducking the question?.
I assume you mean Section G2. I haven't a clue - it's nothing I have any involvement it
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Old 13-03-2009, 17:41   #261
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Re: Legal action taken against Virgin Media throttling practices

You mean the so-called 'Phorm' clause?
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Old 13-03-2009, 17:47   #262
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Re: Legal action taken against Virgin Media throttling practices

Well I assume that was why the question was asked.
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Old 13-03-2009, 18:04   #263
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Re: Legal action taken against Virgin Media throttling practices

It was just asked as phorm have been on record as saying it (there dpi equipment) can be used for other things such as throttling and with that clause being in there since the rebrand it could be there gifted kit doing the throttling all i have to go off is vm's say so and thats pretty much shaky as ever since the company formed i totally dislike the way there treating customers constantly changing things since becoming the cable monopoly.
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Old 13-03-2009, 18:08   #264
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Re: Legal action taken against Virgin Media throttling practices

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Originally Posted by Mike_A View Post
After careful scrutiny, unilateral restriction of services is not allowed in my contract with VM.
Scrutiny of what? Could you cut and paste the relevant piece(s) of text for us?

Sorry to join in hopelessy late! I am genuinely interested in all this.
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Old 13-03-2009, 18:09   #265
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Re: Legal action taken against Virgin Media throttling practices

is it me or has this thread exploded in 1 day (14 pages in 1 day) need to see if i can put it onto 20-30 pages per view

STM has been in place for 2 years (or 6 months after they taken over ntl)
2mb was an joke even haveing an STM on it 500mb lol no point at all,
i agree the STM on 10mb is to Low 1.4gb
20mb could be with been an little higher (5gb be better so dvd size can be downloaded) but 3.4gb should be good for most users up to 9pm, unless you Live at home
50mb be good once they fix the out side big pipes, Virgin to main line backbone internet as that seems to be the problem when the 50mb is maxed out for 1GB downloaded/5mins drops to 4mb ISP/400KB/s for 5-10 mins then over 3-4 mins works it way back to full speed, but that issue i am trying to resove with them now (need to test this with others as well with 50mb as well) speed tests inside are fine

-- speeking of ofcom need to ring them up an sky rep came around my house saying i can Only get 12mb boradband in my area on cable line what a whole full of Bull that is Cable is not adsl i can only get 1mb/(3mb ADSL MAX) maybe at my house so if i could only get 12mb on cable (real is 45-50 norm) ADSL/Sky can not offer me faster broadband most around my houses can only get 1-2mb bb, that cant even beat the 10mb service on cable even if the STM kicks in --
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Old 13-03-2009, 18:20   #266
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Re: Legal action taken against Virgin Media throttling practices

DPI equipment which is better know as ALLOT is installed in some headends but Virgin Media say its only used to collect stats, some forum memeber has said there has been more ALLOT equipment been installed which I have seen no proof, simple Virgin media as its stand dont use DPI or Phorm, however this could change but I am not sure if it will or not we will have to wait and see.
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Old 13-03-2009, 18:31   #267
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Re: Legal action taken against Virgin Media throttling practices

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Originally Posted by BenMcr View Post
I assume you mean Section G2. I haven't a clue - it's nothing I have any involvement it
Let me open the door a bit then, shine the tiniest bit of light of bits of law the court in this case will need to address.

Fraud Act 2006
Section 2: (false representation)
1. A person is in breach of this section if he—
(a) dishonestly makes a false representation, and
(b) intends, by making the representation -
i. to make a gain for himself or another, or
ii. to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.”
Computer Misuse Act 1990 (Scotland, similar elsewhere in UK)
1. A person is guilty of an offence if
(a) he does any unauthorised act in relation to a computer;
(b) at the time when he does the act he knows that it is unauthorised; and
(c) either subsection (2) or subsection (3) below applies.
2. This subsection applies if the person intends by doing the act
(a) to impair the operation of any computer;
(b) to prevent or hinder access to any program or data held in any computer; or
(c) to impair the operation of any such program or the reliability of any such data; or
(d) to enable any of the things mentioned in paragraphs (a) to (c) above to be done.
3. This subsection applies if the person is reckless as to whether the act will do any of the things mentioned in paragraphs (a) to (d) of subsection (2) above.
Confidentiality of Communications, Regulation 6:
1. Subject to paragraph (4), a person shall not use an electronic communications network to store information, or to gain access to information stored, in the terminal equipment of a subscriber or user unless the requirements of paragraph (2) are met.
2. The requirements are that the subscriber or user of that terminal equipment -
(a) is provided with clear and comprehensive information about the purposes of the storage of, or access to, that information; and
(b) is given the opportunity to refuse the storage of or access to that information.

By intercepting packets of data and separating or delaying their transmission or receipt Virgin Media falls foul of the above in several ways.

First, without overtly and directly agreeing with a customer that they may unilaterally delay packets of data to such an extent it causes significant impact to service, VM commit fraud if there is a benefit to them or a loss to the customer. No amount of excuse as to indirect delivery of supposed revised contracts can overcome this.

Second. It is an offence at criminal and civil law to interfere with a person's data, including the data by anyone that may use a computer system within a household, and cause restriction of use of a computer by slowing it down or reducing its ability to communicate with other computers (the Internet).

Third. It is an offence at criminal or civil law to intercept confidential information in transit or in situ on a computer by accessing packets of that data.

In each of these cases there would need to be a bilateral agreement where all parties to the agreement are informed of the full facts and consequences before Virgin Media was in a position to positively defend transgressions. It is the lack of adequate information as regards delivery of supposed contractual changes that negates excuse by this ISP. The interference with a single packet of data by using, separating or delaying it becomes unlawful in many respects, each packet of data intercepted exacerbating the extent of unlawfulness. VM may be committing millions of crimes per client by intercepting data for any reason, especially so if it results in a loss of service to the client

If it were demonstrated that any DPI (Data Packet Interception) was instigated, or Phorm was subscribed to, then the case that VM breached contract inevitably succeeds, no matter how they say they represent their contracts (by link or other pseudo discovery) but especially if they misrepresented.
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Old 13-03-2009, 18:38   #268
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Re: Legal action taken against Virgin Media throttling practices

Right, Virgin Media Cable DO NOT USE DPI ok? Nor do they use Phorm

Thanks

Virgin have already said they would inform customers before they introduced it

http://www.virginmedia.com/customers/webwise.php

In the meantime, we'll continue to communicate our intentions openly and transparently. If we go ahead with deployment, we will let all our customers know before rolling out the Webwise solution and will clearly explain how the system works and what it means for them.
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Old 13-03-2009, 18:48   #269
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Re: Legal action taken against Virgin Media throttling practices

Quote:
Originally Posted by caph View Post
Scrutiny of what? Could you cut and paste the relevant piece(s) of text for us?

Sorry to join in hopelessy late! I am genuinely interested in all this.
Hope you had a good supply of tea whilst you were reading!

I mean scrutiny of the original contract I had with Telewest and any variance of it. I don't think I can cut and paste bits of the contract because it would breach VM copyright and would delve beyond the border of not discussing the actual detail of the court case as it will be submitted (I go close to it above, but only to point out significant law for this debate, not as I shall represent in court). However, I think it was Ben who pointed to relevant parts of contract earlier in the thread.

---------- Post added at 19:48 ---------- Previous post was at 19:45 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr View Post
Right, Virgin Media Cable DO NOT USE DPI ok? Nor do they use Phorm

Thanks

Virgin have already said they would inform customers before they introduced it
Thanks for that Ben. So can you say how they grab packets of data and slow them down? And whether that is by accessing an individual connection, all connections to node or something else.
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Old 13-03-2009, 18:51   #270
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Re: Legal action taken against Virgin Media throttling practices

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_A View Post
Thanks for that Ben. So can you say how they grab packets of data and slow them down? And whether that is by accessing an individual connection, all connections to node or something else.
To the best of my knowledge of the technical workings, they don't!
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