Legal action taken against Virgin Media throttling practices

[Mike_A]

Originally Posted by broadbandking

Thats a bit snotty Ben, Mike the only reason I can see why Ben is not with VM is because he doesnt live in a cable area.

That's what I wondered and why I asked. I had assumed Manchester (by his name) was all cabled up. One alternative is that Virgin Media staff don't like being throttled so go elsewhere for better line speed/service - regardless of any discounts. {Sorry, couldn't resist}

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by Mike_A

As a matter of interest, I note by your name you are with Sky/Be. As a Virgin Media group employee, why not with VM?

The are many members of staff who do not live in a Cable enabled areas and therefore are unable to enjoy the benefits offered by a staff package at a nominal fee.

The is no other reason that most members of staff would not take advantage of such a deal if it was actually available to them where they live.

[Limmer]

After reading through all of this post and everyone’s input, there can only really be one reasonable outcome to this.

Ben and Mike need to get a room.

Seriously though, good luck Mike. I for one can see where you are going with this and hope to see common sense prevail, even though I don't exceed my limits or have issues with speed.

[Mike_A]

Originally Posted by Limmer

After reading through all of this post and everyone’s input, there can only really be one reasonable outcome to this.

Ben and Mike need to get a room.

Seriously though, good luck Mike. I for one can see where you are going with this and hope to see common sense prevail, even though I don't exceed my limits or have issues with speed.

lol. Thank you.

The irony in all this is that I never exceeded my limits either. At the most about 50-70 research PDFs for postgraduate students during dissertation season. I willingly, and freely helped them. I never downloaded movies and only ever downloaded music when I needed to learn a tune. Having pointed all this out in 2007 and many times in 2008, asking VM to see reason, I took legal action as a last resort. All they needed to do was charge within a reasonable percentage for what I was receiving, which was often below 10Kb/s on the top package. Intransigence has seen many a corporate fall.

VM can still resolve the matter. If they valued long term high-paying customers, they would. It's so easy.

[Milambar]

While its one thing to discuss VM and VM policies, I draw the line when it comes to personal attacks on the VM staff who help out here.

Benmcr is one of the most knowlegable and helpful persons on this forum. However, he doesn't make VM policies, he just abides by them. To indirectly attack him simply because he doesn't use VM's internet services for which there could be any number of reasons, I find offensive, and as such, I will no longer participate in this thread.

[moaningmags]

Originally Posted by Milambar

Benmcr is one of the most knowlegable and helpful persons on this forum. However, he doesn't make VM policies, he just abides by them. To indirectly attack him simply because he doesn't use VM's internet services for which there could be any number of reasons, I find offensive.

I fully agree with that, I don't know of any other member as helpful, consistent or knowledgeable in the advice he gives.

[LondonRoad]

Originally Posted by moaningmags

I fully agree with that, I don't know of any other member as helpful, consistent or knowledgeable in the advice he gives.

Fullly agree. Ben's knowledge is 2nd to none (although I didn't get a VM welcome pack either so don't put your neck on the line when Royal Mail are involved).
I'm following this debate with interest and the last post from MikeA was untypical of him so far in this thread. I'm sure if these two intelligent men were having this discussion over a pint in a bar that would have been a throwaway line from Mike that would have been brushed aside by now. Get back on track, cut out the personal stuff.

[BenMcr]

I'm sorry if my response was though of as rude - the same for Mike's question

But honestly, I'm more than slightly fed up of being asked about why I don't have VM services

In any company there going to be people that have competitors services - including a shed load of Sky employees who have got Virgin

I wouldn't read anything into it - and it certainly has no bearing on what I think of Virgin's products - I would much rather have the Samsung V+ over the Sky+HD box any day of the week!

[Welshchris]

I still think daily\Monthly caps are a better way of controlling heavy users.

They should have a strict policy that if u then hit ur monthly allowance ur STM'd for the rest of the remaining month.

a 300GB cap on 20mb would be ample for most users.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Welshchris

a 300GB cap on 20mb would be ample for most users.

Can you even download 300Gb in less than 24 hours on a 20Mbit connection if there was no STM?

---------- Post added at 01:11 ---------- Previous post was at 01:07 ----------

According to this calculator http://www.numion.com/Calculators/Bytes.html

You could only 276Gb on a 25Mbit connection in 1 day

Although it says that 1000 bytes are in a kilobyte for download calculations

[graf_von_anonym]

Originally Posted by Mike_A

Are all Virgin Media staff brainwashed into a VM gratifying state of mind?

Yes. I have found nothing but rampant pathalogical boosterism amongst Virgin Media staff. Of course, were it not for the brave Political Officers who ensure there is no deviation within the cadres then it is possible that retrenchist backsliders would see the message weakened, but at all times staff are motivated! Stirring songs in their mouths, hatred for the customers in their hearts, and the tickling sensation of nine millimetre loyalty ever on the back of their necks.

I'm still not certain what you want from Virgin Media though. Some form of redress it's clear, but could you clearly state what it is that you seek?

[Welshchris]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Can you even download 300Gb in less than 24 hours on a 20Mbit connection if there was no STM?

---------- Post added at 01:11 ---------- Previous post was at 01:07 ----------

According to this calculator http://www.numion.com/Calculators/Bytes.html

You could only 276Gb on a 25Mbit connection in 1 day

Although it says that 1000 bytes are in a kilobyte for download calculations

i meant a 300GB a month cap.

[OLDo]

Firstly, I applaud Mike for taking on this fight.

While there has to be a balance between delivery costs and service quality, traffic management activities need to be more clearly defined, as they have the potential to, and infact do (as is clearly evident on this forum) impact the whole user base, not just those deemed to be "excessive downloaders". VM's line about traffic management being beneficial to 95% of their customers is therefore up for debate. That is unless we represent only those pesky 5%, which i highly doubt. (Why don't VM penalise consistently heavy transfer users by implementing throttling only after a period of excessive usage on successive days?)

I'm unable to host a 12 person game on Call of Duty: World at War (on the PS3 console) without it kicking everyone out half way through (this is with no other load on the WAN link). I know various people who are able to host these games flawlessly on ADSL connections that provide (in some cases) less than half the bandwidth of my 20Mbit cable connection. So bandwidth isn't the problem. Nor is my connection according to VM Tech Support who assure me my connection is fine. My ping response times which range wildy between 15ms and 50ms (with the odd spike to 70ms) to bbc.co.uk are apparently "within normal limits", dispite the fact that a healthy connection should show much stabler latency statistics. Response times to my default gateway vary wildly between 6ms and 30ms (..it's only one hop!).
Is this gaming problem down to STM, and the fact that the game uses P2P UDP traffic? Is it down to over subscription on my UBR? I'll never know because they can't tell me what's going on behind the scenes in their network at the time of failure.

Providers should be forced to provide realtime information on traffic management (or anything that might affect ones ability to achieve their stated service level), on a per customer basis, so that we could easily differentiate between a poor performing connection, and a managed connection.

[lymmranger]

hear hear OLDo

I too download sporadically and in no way "batter" my connection
I am so far unaffected by any form of STM

BUT

I also have no idea what vm consider reasonable

As stated earlier I think it is time that EVERY ISP was forced to CLEARLY state what you can and cant do and how much it will cost

All ISP`s - vm included, advertise the benefits of choosing the speed of your package by stating how quickly you can download a music track or movie
.........clearly STM (however fair/unfair) policies (and caps for that matter) blow those (advertised)speeds into insignificance. All ISP`s dangle a big fat juicy carrot such as "unlimited" "speed" etc, once the great unwashed sign up and are locked into contract we find that the carrot is in fact a cardboard cutout of a mouldy cabbage

I must state that I personally have nothing but praise for the vm service I have recieved so far BUT I am old enough to have experienced several ISP`s over the years - They are all as bad as each other.
I suspect that the underlying problem is "lack of infrastructure - but how is that the customers problem???? - if we pay for unlimited xxxMeg connections then that is what we should get. Unlimited means UNLIMITED!
I would like CLARIFICATION - as Alexander says "simples"

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Indeed. That is what section H is for. Part 2 specifically deals with changes to the terms and conditions.

Telewest also had a similar term http://help2.virginmedia.com/help/ge...sandconditions

We may amend or vary the terms of this Agreement from time to time by posting an amended version of these terms and conditions to our Website (and any such amendment or variation shall be effective on the fifth day following such posting). However you will have the right to terminate this Agreement if the changes are significant as described in paragraph 73

Ben you do not seem to understand, with due respect , a contract has to be fair, anyone can challenge a contract in court, it is then for the district judge to decide if that contract is fair, I thought you would know that