School gym forced to shut

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Who decides on behalf of everyone in that faith which version to follow, as different sections of the faith interpret things differently - for instance, I am Christian, but I won't sell my daughter into slavery, or burn my mother for wearing mixed fibre clothing, or put my colleagues to death for working on Sunday.

Which version of Christianity promotes any of those?

Well we would need Muslim religious leaders to let us know that . I am sure the Koran is interpreted in different ways if it wasnt then perhaps every Muslim would believe in the Jihad afterall it is pretty clear that its there in the Koran. My point is you either follow your religion 100% to the best of your knowledge or you are false to it. I could not live my life so I left. I am sure this mixing point should be pretty clear? some links to corresponding scriptures would be nice from some of my Muslim friends

God did not say to Moses thou shalt not steal but its ok if its really nice and you really want it did he

[LondonRoad]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Who decides on behalf of everyone in that faith which version to follow, as different sections of the faith interpret things differently - for instance, I am Christian, but I won't sell my daughter into slavery, or burn my mother for wearing mixed fibre clothing, or put my colleagues to death for working on Sunday.

I know the bible is open to interpretation but, , there's a fair bit of artistic licence there.

Again I think this thread has really wandered away from the original topic..

Originally Posted by demented

I think it's a shame that a gym has closed over such a minor issue.

No gym has closed. A gymnastics club has been told to find somewhere else to hold its classes after rejecting the chance to continue using the school, but later in the evening. However it is welcome to use the school premises until the end of the current term (3rd April).

I will be incredibly surprised if the talkative Mr Perry has not found space elsewhere by then - or else come round to the idea of remaining at the school with a later start time. After all, as he was so keen to tell the papers, its 250 kids, five nights a week. I can't see him being keen to just pack that in.

Of course the cold hard facts don't make quite such an eye-catching headline, so it's not surprising so many people have been misled by the Daily Express' take on this ("School gym forced to shut by muslims").

[demented]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

It was specifically in reply to your post above which included "If you are going to live your life by a doctrine you can not pick or choose which parts you follow if you do you are being false to your God ".

You seem to be stating all or nothing - I was highlighting that perhaps it isn't so black and white to some people.

It's a very important point though. Between Stuart C and Zinglebarb they've pretty much managed to highlight the problem with nearly all religious arguments in just a couple of posts.

That's the whole point of these issues like gyms closing that crops up. It is normally the case that

1. Someone in the past has declared x to be important, over time it's not talked about so much and becomes less relevent.
2.At date y it crops up and some subgroup that worries about x gets angry because x has cropped up.
3.The rest of that religion isn't so bothered about it/not affected. The subgroup feels oppressed because with their beliefs they relate it as a primary issue for them and say so.
4. At which point someone comes along and says but the rest of your religion isn't so bothered about it.
5. Subgroup gets offended and says they are picking on their religion. If someone from that religion makes the remark it ends up as an argument within that religion. If it's an outsider then it's christians/atheists/non-whatevers picking on them and not "respecting" their views.
6. The whole argument probably goes on and on without too much of anybody really saying why they think such and such and lack of perspective to see past the issue (gym closing in this case).

As for gym closing I do mean not being able to use facilities as before and I do think that is a shame. In some circumstances it could be a big nuisance.

Muhrim, in Islam, the close relatives of the opposite sex, as detailed by the Qur'an (Koran) (the sacred scripture of Islam), whom a Muslim may not marry. A Muslim may not mix freely with any member of the opposite sex who is not muhrim.

This scripture does appear to make it pretty clear which does in fact back up those who complained about the gym. So how can this be interpreted in another way?

It might have been so much more helpful if the papers has emphasised the need to find an alternative suitable venue and got the public's assistance in doing so.

Originally Posted by Maggy J

It might have been so much more helpful if the papers has emphasised the need to find an alternative suitable venue and got the public's assistance in doing so.

Sadly the national Press isn't primarily concerned with being 'helpful'. The Daily Mail is concerned with blaming all our ills on everyone who can't prove at least 5 generations of native British ancestry and the Daily Express is concerned with shoring up its plummetting circulation by trying to out-do the Daily Mail.

Hence odious, distorted tales like this one.

[demented]

I'm just saying non-corporate style gyms are quite rare in some areas. Finding a sufficiently cheap and suitable venue (in terms of distance, safety and space) I can imagine would be a serious headache. I don't regard the story as too much of a distortion in the sense that (a) services were ending, what is meant to me as "school gym" (b) it appears to be because of some pseudoreligious reason.

If someone gets worked up about some secondary issue, I can't really blame the papers for going for the jugular. It's fair cop in my eyes. Moreover the paper story might not be functionally useless as bringing up the issue may prevent it happening elsewhere or might mitigate a compromise.

As for the non-British stuff, I don't have any time for that, but on the other hand I'm not really too impressed by people getting offended at the smallest thing.

Originally Posted by Chris

Which version of Christianity promotes any of those?

I think it may be a altered quote from the West Wing. The point of which is no Christian follows every section of the bible, or better put, not every sentence is the Bible is literally true, (one of which, I believe, states the penalty for working on the Sabbath is death?) Even if the overall point of that passage is?.

Originally Posted by Damien

I think it may be a altered quote from the West Wing. The point of which is no Christian follows every section of the bible, or better put, not every sentence is the Bible is literally true, (one of which, I believe, states the penalty for working on the Sabbath is death?) Even if the overall point of that passage is?.

You're confusing 'true' with 'applicable'. Very different concepts. But for another topic.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

If you are going to live your life by a doctrine you can not pick or choose which parts you follow if you do you are being false to your God

That is a rather black and white view... First, you appear to be assuming all muslims are devout (they aren't), and you appear to be assuming that all muslims follow the same doctrine (they don't, AFAIK).

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Who decides on behalf of everyone in that faith which version to follow, as different sections of the faith interpret things differently - for instance, I am Christian, but I won't sell my daughter into slavery (Exodus 21:7), or burn my mother for wearing mixed fibre clothing (Deuteronomy 22:11), or put my colleagues to death for working on Sunday (Exodus 35:2).

Originally Posted by Chris

Which version of Christianity promotes any of those?

Originally Posted by harmitage

I know the bible is open to interpretation but, , there's a fair bit of artistic licence there.

Here is the link for the West Wing.

Originally Posted by Stuart C

That is a rather black and white view... First, you appear to be assuming all muslims are devout (they aren't), and you appear to be assuming that all muslims follow the same doctrine (they don't, AFAIK).

as far as I am aware there is only one Koran so how can they follow different versions of it? sometimes things really are black and white. The rules of whatever religion you follow will be laid out for the follower pretty early on so the follower knows the score. He/she then chooses if he /she is going to follow these rules if they choose to then they are following the teachings of their church if they choose not to then they do not

---------- Post added at 17:54 ---------- Previous post was at 17:52 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

Sadly the national Press isn't primarily concerned with being 'helpful'. The Daily Mail is concerned with blaming all our ills on everyone who can't prove at least 5 generations of native British ancestry and the Daily Express is concerned with shoring up its plummetting circulation by trying to out-do the Daily Mail.

Hence odious, distorted tales like this one.

its also been reported in the Telegraph