Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery

The thing is folks we are hearing more and more the idea that "Well I wasn't offended myself but I thought I'd better say something in case someone else might take offence".

When did we have to become the arbiter of offensiveness on someone else's behalf?Can't we just be offended on our own?


I'm not a supporter of the red tops form of journalism usually but this does seem a step too far..

It would seem we have clearly forgotten the adage of live and let live except of course when it means bearing witness against thugs,criminals and reporting crimes directly to the police.In those cases we keep our traps shut for fear of retribution.

[LondonRoad]

Originally Posted by frogstamper

If this nurse had been warned before about "praying" for her patients, then its right she should be disciplined, note I said disciplined not suspended.
Most of us are assuming that the nurse just dropped in a prayer at the end of the consultation, but we don't know, she could well have been banging on about religion throughout her visit and the prayer was the straw that broke the camels back.
Its a moot point saying the old lady didn't complain, because by ringing her employers and saying "it doesn't bother me but it might well bother others" what did she expect would happen?
The nurse is a professional care giver who by and large is going to be treating people she hardly knows, so why on earth does she feel the need to introduce religion into this scenario? I doubt very much this was only the second time she'd done this, how many other people have had to listen to her religious views whilst she tends to them?
Surely the patient has the right not to be preached at, that comes before her "religious freedoms".

According to the lady herself:
She didn't say a prayer for the patient in question because the offer was declined. She offered to pray for the patient only once, so didn't force her religious beliefs on anybody, simply offered a prayer. There was no preaching involved.
Her previous "offence" was the offer of a prayer card, again declined, which according to the lady herself was not accompanied by any preaching.

Lets get it in perspective.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by frogstamper

Surely the patient has the right not to be preached at, that comes before her "religious freedoms".

She wasn't being 'preached at', nowhere does it say the nurse went on about how Jesus is alive and died for our sins etc - had the nurse gone that far then I'd be more inclined to agree that what she did was not appropriate at work.

She offered to keep the lady in her thoughts outside of work (which is a poke in the eye at the militant anti-religionists who are assuming the nurse was going to pray for her right there in the room) in a way that many many other people do, and would appreciate. This is bourne out by the fact that it's only ever been brought up twice in her career.

Originally Posted by harmitage

According to the lady herself:
She didn't say a prayer for the patient in question because the offer was declined. She offered to pray for the patient only once, so didn't force her religious beliefs on anybody, simply offered a prayer. There was no preaching involved.
Her previous "offence" was the offer of a prayer card, again declined, which according to the lady herself was not accompanied by any preaching.

Lets get it in perspective.

Could I just point out that we are only hearing about this from the nurse's viewpoint, which may not be totally impartial - all the Trust has said is that someone contacted them, and an investigation is underway; any other information given has been the nurse's version (who, for some reason, even though she is not working, always seems to be wearing her nurse's uniform in all the TV and press interviews ).

btw, she also said in an interview with the Guardian
"She said she had seen her supplications have real effects on patients, including a Catholic woman whose urine infection cleared up days after she said a prayer"

And with the Telegraph
"Mrs Petrie said that she often offers to pray for her patients and that many take her up on it.
and
Mrs Petrie said: "I stopped handing out prayer cards after that but I found it more and more difficult [not to offer them]".

Her first comment in the Telegraph sounds as this is a regular occurrence, even though her employer had previously requested in November "If there is any further similar incident it may be treated as potential misconduct and the formal disciplinary procedure could be instigated.".

[Russ]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

(who, for some reason, even though she is not working, always seems to be wearing her nurse's uniform in all the TV and press interviews ).

Oh and it's not like the tv crew ever ask its interviewees to do things such as wear their work uniform for effect...

[sherer]

i'm not religious but of someone offered to pray for me, no matter what faith they were, I wouldn't be offended, upset or angry. I would take it as a nurse showing caring for me, which is what they are meant to do.

Originally Posted by sherer

i'm not religious but of someone offered to pray for me, no matter what faith they were, I wouldn't be offended, upset or angry. I would take it as a nurse showing caring for me, which is what they are meant to do.

I agree with you, and I would accept it, but her employer asked her not to.

I may be mistaken, but it appears to me this lady is mixing her evangelical feelings with her day job, and she has been requested not to.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

I agree with you, and I would accept it, but her employer asked her not to.

I may be mistaken, but it appears to me this lady is mixing her evangelical feelings with her day job, and she has been requested not to.

Yes, you would be mistaken. Evangelising is not about offering to pray for someone.

Originally Posted by Russ B

Yes, you would be mistaken. Evangelising is not about offering to pray for someone.

Could a continued insistence to do so, after being asked not too by your superior, may be considered Evangelising?

Originally Posted by Damien

Could a continued insistence to do so, after being asked not too by your superior, may be considered Evangelising?

That would depend on the motive of the person doing the praying. Evangelism is about promoting your belief in the hope that other people will come to share it. It's conceivable that the person offering to pray might hope that, in the long term, their faith as expressed in their desire to pray for others might cause those others to desire to share that faith. However some Christians would term this 'evangelization' rather than 'evangelism', in recognition that it is quite different than actively telling people what your world-view is and recommending they consider accepting it.

I doubt the Health Authority is interested in the technicalites anyway. So far as they are concerned, she simply is being too overtly religious for their liking.

[Dai]

I think there may be a degree of evangelising there. After all, it could be said that it would be just as effective for her to include her patients in her prayers without saying anything to them at all.

The 'prayer card' episode also leads me to the same conclusion. In my experience prayer cards are only handed out by evangelising Christians. They're not the sort of thing that all beliveres carry as a matter of routine.

Having said that I still believe that the 'equality and diversity' people are showing no such thing and are overreacting to a situation that has harmed nobody and lost them a valuable staff member.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by DaiNasty

I think there may be a degree of evangelising there. After all, it could be said that it would be just as effective for her to include her patients in her prayers without saying anything to them at all.

It's not really evangelising. I wouldn't pray for someone personally without their permission, it's generally considered 'bad form' by many.

Originally Posted by DaiNasty

The 'prayer card' episode also leads me to the same conclusion. In my experience prayer cards are only handed out by evangelising Christians. They're not the sort of thing that all beliveres carry as a matter of routine.

Again that's not correct. I have prayer cards, and I don't evangelise. I consider them to be an alternative way of telling someone they're in your thoughts.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Rob M

What offence? The lady in question never said she was offended.....

Although *someone* would need to have told the Trust, otherwise they wouldn't know..

No, but sometimes it's necessary to look beyond the intial hue and cry and decide whether these are the actions of someone who has been offended, or the actions of someone that has chosen to be offended.

Life isn't as straight forward as you seem to think it is. If you spend your whole time reacting to every person who claims to be a victim, and chasing after every person that's accused of causing offence, you'll quite often miss the quiet person sat in the corner that really needs your help.

Quite.. There are people who seem to look for things to get offended by, both on and off line. The Daily Mail seems to be staffed by them.

The second part of what you said is also true.

Having worked for a Hospital Trust, I agree with Superbiatch. I doubt that the trust would act *simply* because she prayed for a patient. If they did so, they would be opening themselves up to all sorts of potential trouble. I suspect there were other reasons to get rid of her and this was just an excuse.

Originally Posted by SMG

Ah, so your one of those religious people who go around bothering people on their day off, pestering them, & trying to drum your beliefs into them eh.

Then when they try & get rid of you, your going to argue. Are you serious? Your going to a strangers house & your prepared to argue? [Mod Edit (Rob M)] Do you relay think your martial arts will help you when your trespassing & the homeowner faces you with an iron bar?? [Mod Edit (Rob M)]

you were the one who decided to bring any threatening behaviour into it.

I used to knock the doors because I believed what I did was right when I was asked to leave I left I never once was faced with violence.

As for the iron bar if someone attacks with such a weapon you move in not away as this reduces the swing and removes most of the force from the blow allowing you to disarm your opponant.

[Mod Edit (Rob M)]

[Dai]

Originally Posted by Russ B

It's not really evangelising. I wouldn't pray for someone personally without their permission, it's generally considered 'bad form' by many.

Is that really so? I've never come across that idea before. My grandson, as me before him always ends his nightly prayers with God bless Mummy, God bless Daddy, God bless Grandma.. etc etc.. It's never been suggested to me in my churchgoing years that anything like that was bad form.

Again that's not correct. I have prayer cards, and I don't evangelise. I consider them to be an alternative way of telling someone they're in your thoughts.

Just my experience. The only times I have been offered prayer cards was on each occasion the start of a (polite and gentle) sales pitch. No big deal to me, as unlike the equality nuts I'm actually OK with people having alternative ways, as long as they do no harm or frighten the horses.