Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records

[rogerdraig]

Originally Posted by Nidge

Whats wrong with people having convictions from years ago?? You can't hold something against a person for something they did many years ago, this was the reason why the rehabilitation of offenders act came into force, any conviction which was 5 years ago is classed as spent, more seroius convictions are 10 years before they are classed as spent.

I've got a conviction on my record for something I did over 25 years ago, I've got nothing else on my record since, I'd hate for this to hold me back from gaining employment.

My recent job requires me to access the main DHL Depot at East Midlands Airport, I have a CRB clearance which allows me to go airside. When the CRB came back they didn't say anything about the conviction 25 years ago.

actually it may have said about it as the employer CRB statement has stuff on it you don't see on the statement they send to you but they could well have decided quite rightly it wasn't relevant any more

Originally Posted by rogermevans

actually it may have said about it as the employer CRB statement has stuff on it you don't see on the statement they send to you but they could well have decided quite rightly it wasn't relevant any more

Now, admittedly the rules are a little different here in Scotland, but they're not that different - and here, there is no such thing as a 'different' background record disclosure for viewing by an employer as opposed to an employee. In fact, the DPA would make it impossible for the CRB to give information to your prospective employer and refuse to give it to you. Unless you have specific information to the contrary, I think you're incorrect on that point.

However, quite right to say that a mature employer with a robust recruitment policy would have the wherewithall to evaluate past convictions and decide on their relevance.

There is also the issue here of whether the employer is exempted from the Rehab. of Offenders Act and is therefore permitted to see an enhanced CRB check ('Enhanced Disclosure' in Scotland) which contains all details of past convictions, whether spent or not. Only certain jobs are exempted in this way.

[rogerdraig]

Originally Posted by Chris

Now, admittedly the rules are a little different here in Scotland, but they're not that different - and here, there is no such thing as a 'different' background record disclosure for viewing by an employer as opposed to an employee. In fact, the DPA would make it impossible for the CRB to give information to your prospective employer and refuse to give it to you. Unless you have specific information to the contrary, I think you're incorrect on that point.

However, quite right to say that a mature employer with a robust recruitment policy would have the wherewithall to evaluate past convictions and decide on their relevance.

There is also the issue here of whether the employer is exempted from the Rehab. of Offenders Act and is therefore permitted to see an enhanced CRB check ('Enhanced Disclosure' in Scotland) which contains all details of past convictions, whether spent or not. Only certain jobs are exempted in this way.

oh yes there is on the employers printout there is a section on other details which can include ongoing investigations and even suspicions by officers and or old convictions they know about that they think may be relevant

as an employer myself of nursery staff i see that section i also have to sign that i wont divulge what is in that section to the person or any one else other than those involved in the procurement of staff who also sign to the same effect as it as i said can include ongoing investigations etc

this section is not in the print out they send to you

see

http://www.crb.gov.uk/default.aspx?page=1858 ( might be my conection but that page takes an age to load compared to the rest of the site )

That's extraordinary - and is certainly not the case north of the border. You may find that it's no longer the case in England, either, when the Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act becomes active later this year. It will make some significant changes to the CRB process.

Scotland's version of this Act contains specific safeguards that allow individuals not only to see the entire contents of their disclosure, but to appeal against it. If an appeal is lodged then the Chief Constable will have to justify the 'non conviction' information his officers have supplied.

The English system, in its current form, is a serious injustice just waiting to happen. I only hope they have taken the opportunity to reform that aspect of it. Unfortunately I don't know the answer to that as my current area of work is with the Scottish legislation and I've had very little interface with SVG.

[rogerdraig]

yep lot of changes but as far as i am aware ( got another course to go on soon ( highly exciting sigh ) ) that is still part of it but some of my decision making is being taken away as now the checking body can mark people as unemployable with out me seeing why either in some circumstances

http://www.everychildmatters.gov.uk/...dingauthority/

lol the stuff i have to do and i am only a volunteer manager but now every one and their dog can sue me over every decision sigh

Originally Posted by rogermevans

yep lot of changes but as far as i am aware ( got another course to go on soon ( highly exciting sigh ) ) that is still part of it but some of my decision making is being taken away as now the checking body can mark people as unemployable with out me seeing why either in some circumstances

http://www.everychildmatters.gov.uk/...dingauthority/

Yes - the basis of both Acts (England and Scotland) is a membership-based Scheme which people wishing to do regulated work (basically, work with children, or certain vulnerable adults) will need to join (membership is compulsory in England, but not in Scotland).

Employers will consult the Scheme to see if their applicant is a member of it or not. If the applicant is not, and is unable/unwilling to join, then the employer will have the decision effectively made for them. In England, I believe the employer may be committing an offence simply for employing someone who is not in the Scheme (not certain on that point though). In Scotland it's going to be a bit more relaxed - it's not illegal to employ a non-scheme member, but as scheme membership is the only way of proving an individual is not on one or both of the Barred From Working lists, it's going to be unsafe to employ someone who isn't in the Scheme.

I'd love to say I can offer you hints and tips to help you understand the new rules, but as I said, my work is connected with the Scottish scheme.

[rogerdraig]

ah well and i just got confident on knowing my CRB stuff now a new load to learn and find out what i signed my life away on

Sigh!

Another set of forms to fill in..again.

Don't get me wrong..I'm for anything that protects children...but not every child molester actually works with children directly and I'm not sure how many it will catch out and..and in the meantime it's another hurdle for completely innocent people like me to have to jump.No doubt it will cost me to be covered by it..

[eth01]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

To be fair at one time there was a section on the form about one's financial and credit standing along side the criminal section of the form.

"... at one time"

but clearly no longer to be the case, is that what your saying?

[rogerdraig]

normally a credit reference check like the ones a bank does for a loan is done as part of the check still though you did used to have to give permission for them to see your bank details too this is no longer the case

BUT it would still be possible for them to check that if they so wished as part of the enhanced version anyway

you can see what you have to fill in here

http://www.crb.gov.uk/pdf/crb11%20guidance.pdf

just finishing mine off at the moment just got to find where the wifes hidden the marriage certificate now lol

Originally Posted by eth01

"... at one time"

but clearly no longer to be the case, is that what your saying?

Obviously.

[Virgin Salesman]

Hi Guys

I think some are mis-understanding.

A spent conviction is spent! An unspent conviction is unspent - thats the law (spent convictions do not show on a basic CRC from Disclosure Scotland)! Also if the conviction is not relevant then it would not be considered during the recuitment process - some driving offences etc.

For example: If someone was convicted in the past and their conviction is now spent surely that means they can get on with their life (and work where they want) as it is a spent conviction (on checking this is normally 6 years).

However, as i originally posted i am refering to staff with unspent convictions.

After a month and with the knowledge of VM no action has been taken.

I am daily in contact with customers I feel are vulnerable (ie they give me bank/personal details etc). I ask again VM what are you going to do to protect these customers?

[WHISTLED]

As has been explained here and privately current UK legislation does not allow the checks you have sugggested for the business.

If you know of specific individuals either locally or nationally that VM should be concerned about there are steps available to you. I think you are aware of them though.

If you are so concerned then do something about it, make a stand.. Its not like anything will ever come back to you.

[rogerdraig]

as above poster pointed out what you want is not possible

and giving you bank details doesn't make them vulnerable adults there is a description here of what that means

http://www.crb.gov.uk/Default.aspx?page=400

scroll down to where it says

"Vulnerable Adults
The CRB has two definitions of a vulnerable adult, one that is entitled to an Enhanced Check and one for a Standard check."

Originally Posted by Virgin Salesman

A spent conviction is spent! An unspent conviction is unspent - thats the law (spent convictions do not show on a basic CRC from Disclosure Scotland)!

Your point is correct as far as it goes, but unspent convictions are put on an enhanced disclosure. So there are certain circumstances in which a person cannot escape their past crimes.

Also if the conviction is not relevant then it would not be considered during the recuitment process - some driving offences etc.

Not correct. They shouldn't, as a matter of good recruitment practice, form part of the recruitment decision, unless they are relevant, but there is no law to prevent it.

For example: If someone was convicted in the past and their conviction is now spent surely that means they can get on with their life (and work where they want) as it is a spent conviction (on checking this is normally 6 years).

Yes and no - if someone applies for a job that's exempted from the Rehab. of Offenders Act, then the recruiter is entitled to see an enhanced disclosure and is entitled to base their decision on it, even if all the convictions on it are spent.

However, as i originally posted i am refering to staff with unspent convictions.

After a month and with the knowledge of VM no action has been taken.

I am daily in contact with customers I feel are vulnerable (ie they give me bank/personal details etc). I ask again VM what are you going to do to protect these customers?

Well, that's up to VM, but their options when getting disclosures on their potential staff are limited.