Brown on the ropes?

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

and when those around him tell him he's wrong he sacks them, what a guy

Now where else have i seen that happen

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

.... it requires a critical mass of people before change can happen.

True and a half decent leader with passion, morals and vision would galvanise the masses to positive effect NOT stultify them!

[Osem]

Gordy's just soooooooo good at listening to people isn't he...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7616106.stm

He has never been a listener that much was clear long ago with civil servents leaking how hard it was to communicate and establish relationships with him as chancellor. We were all warned long before he became pm what sort of person he was and sadly for us and our country he has shown it in the top job. It is bad enough that the country will suffer more then it had to economically but the damage to our standing internationally may be harder to repair then even the economy.

Originally Posted by Osem

Gordy's just soooooooo good at listening to people isn't he...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7616106.stm

Special envoy for Forestry? I bet he'll miss that high profile job.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Chris

Special envoy for Forestry? I bet he'll miss that high profile job.

Yes that probably was the reason he felt he could voice his concerns. Just a pity some of Brown's Cabinet team don't say what they really think.

Apparently Gardiner was specially elected for that post due to his inability to see the wood for the trees

Originally Posted by Sirius

I have no time for him simply because he has been in charge of the purse strings for years. All that mismanagement is now coming home to bite Labour on the arse and he and his party will find out what we think of him and them, when we get the chance to kick there collective arse's down the road at the election.

I for one will dance in the street when Labour get the big heave ho. My only concern is we could end up with a bunch of tree hugging libs who would not defend this country in time of need and who's only task in life would be to destroy this once great country by handing over whats left to Europe.

I won't be shedding any tears when Labour is ousted, but the country has already been handed over to "Europe" because we have ratified the Lisbon Treaty. We are in real terms now no more than a collection of regions to be ruled by EU institutions. Our next government, no matter which party forms it, will have only interpretative powers over policy and a minor say say when formulating those policies. And the other parties likely to form the next government have put up only the flimsiest of opposition to any of it. They're all in it up to their rotten little self-serving necks and policies won't change by much after the next election.

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by Damien

Sorry, but how do you know this? We don't know the guy's motivations or personality. For all we know he is a decent man, who (imo) is simply not cut out to be PM.

I don't understand the trend to have a personal dislike of every politician. This country is obsessed with getting personal about these people when I think in most cases they are not the Machiavellian devils they are portrayed to be

Because people see he is causing a lot of damage at current, borrowing to try and win votes and making big mistakes.

Although I agree he came into power at a unlucky time but lets not forget many of the problems stem down from his time as chancellor and he is reacting in a bad way to them as PM.

---------- Post added at 16:42 ---------- Previous post was at 16:41 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

To be honest, Alistair Darling tried a more "honest" approach the other week when he admitted the economical was in serious trouble (although I disagree with his dire assessment). Look where that got him.

I thinking the spin is not unique to Labour, Britain, or even politics. I think its a symptom of a society which is too tolerant of lies and not tolerant enough about mistakes.

to be fair you have a point, I felt the media reacted badly to that, they were essentially telling him they would have preffered he lied so people are misled into thinking the economy is better for confidence reasons.

Because people see he is causing a lot of damage at current, borrowing to try and win votes and making big mistakes.

Although I agree he came into power at a unlucky time but lets not forget many of the problems stem down from his time as chancellor and he is reacting in a bad way to them as PM.

I actually think he is a bad PM. He certainly will not be getting my vote, but my point (which most people bar you and Osem seemed to ignore) was not about Brown but politics overall, and that we the public have to shoulder some of the blame when things don't work out. The only constant with all our Prime Minsters is how much the public claims to hate them. This topic won't read much different when a similar one is posted 5 years from now about whoever the PM is at that time...

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

I actually think he is a bad PM. He certainly will not be getting my vote, but my point (which most people bar you and Osem seemed to ignore) was not about Brown but politics overall, and that we the public have to shoulder some of the blame when things don't work out. The only constant with all our Prime Minsters is how much the public claims to hate them. This topic won't read much different when a similar one is posted 5 years from now about whoever the PM is at that time...

Brown is PM and before him was Bliar. They had the power and resources given by the electorate to do the right thing and cocked it up royally. Why are we to blame for that? Whether or not I hate the next PM will depend entirely on what calibre of person they are - if they're rubbish they'll be in trouble but if they at least do what they promised beforehand and I voted for that then I won't be blaming them for anything. Bliar and Brown gained power under false pretences and failed to deliver what they promised in what way am I to blame for that?

Originally Posted by Osem

Brown is PM and before him was Bliar. They had the power and resources given by the electorate to do the right thing and cocked it up royally. Why are we to blame for that? Whether or not I hate the next PM will depend entirely on what calibre of person they are - if they're rubbish they'll be in trouble but if they at least do what they promised beforehand and I voted for that then I won't be blaming them for anything. Bliar and Brown gained power under false pretences and failed to deliver what they promised in what way am I to blame for that?

Not you personally, since I don't know you personally. I am talking about the general public. The view that often gets assigned to the public by the media and judging by a lot of this forum is a good indication of that public.

I already mentioned the reasons why I think the public is not blameless in the way the country is (Although I think it's still pretty good). It's because everyone seems to think the goverment is the answer to everything, we demand to much which means politicans promise too much, we never look at the success of the governments and focus on the negative. It's all unhealthy way to do politics.

Blame the politicians, then blame the voters. Who or what else shall we blame?

New labour came to power on the back of a lot of promises that THEY told us were not hard to deliver and they were both the right party with the right people to deliver it and yes we the public fell for it. THEY then said they had made a start on delivering but needed more time so we voted them in again on good faith.

Your right Damien we are to blame because we believed them and we wanted to believe them then kept wanting to believe they were going to deliver what they promised. But here is the thing most people voted at the last election for labour after an assurance by tony blair he would serve a full third term as PM with the underlying understanding being that he would then hand power to brownshirt and he would fight for ther fourth term.

Did blair mean it as much as i dislike what he represents i think he did unfortunately he had brownshirt waiting in the wings to oust him as soon after that victory as he could and even then didn't come straight out but had his little friends undermine blair and then took over thats why i dislike brownshirt mainly i think that one act showed you all you need to know about brownshirt he is not a man of conviction and he isn't a man that you can have confidence in of keeping his word on a damn thing he says or anyone else says on his or the labour party's behalf.

Thats why he will lose the next election it is why labour will lose the next election and lose it massively. Contempt for the public is a fact of life with politicians and we know they all have it to varying degree's but showing it so blatantly shows a stunning amount of arrogance.

[ntluser]

Getting rid of Gordon Brown will only make a superficial difference as it is the basic underlying policies and philosophy which is wrong.

New Labour is all about image and not substance.

They have modified the old Labour philosophy of "tax and spend" to "borrow, tax and spend", with the result that the UK, like a lot of its citizens, is up to its eyeballs in debt.

As a nation we need to save more and spend less. We also need to increase common sense in government and to massively reduce waste.

We all need to live within our means because when the recession really bites those in debt without savings are going to find things really hard as are the more vulnerable groups like pensioners.

In essence, it is New Labour who must go rather than just Gordon Brown, who is the scapegoat trying to make inappropriate policies work. No wonder he always looks so glum!!

[Chrysalis]

to say 'we' are to blame is also wrong.

More than 50% of the country did not vote for labour in 1997.

Because of first past the post system most elections will grant full power to a party with less than half the votes.