Obama wins nomination ??

[Osem]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7434791.stm

If so, will he make it to the White House? Given the dubious record of the current icumbent and the Republican alternative, I for one hope so. A lot of people (not just in the US) have their hopes pinned on this guy so let's just pray he doesn't turn out to be another Tony Bliar - more spin than substance.

Poor Hillary..........................

Originally Posted by Osem

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7434791.stm

If so, will he make it to the White House? Given the dubious record of the current icumbent, I for one hope so. A lot of people (not just in the US) have their hopes pinned on this guy so let's just pray he doesn't turn out to be another Tony Bliar - more spin than substance.

Poor Hilary..........................

Spin vs Substance is always a hard issue, especially since you can't really be in politics without spin. Personally, I hope he does win and if he does he will be better than Bush IMO. It will be good to have the Democrates in the White House and hopefully Congress.

He could win, but it seems like it will be close. It will be intresting to see where the Clinton votes go, both candidates poll equally well against McCain overall but hopefully the poll results were skewed by the fact that neither Obama or Clinton where the nominee.

[punky]

Poor Hillary nothing. The better candidate has apparently won (IMO). We probably haven't seen the last of her in an executive office - she'll probably now join Obama as a running mate unfortunately. It could bolster Obama's case in places where he needs it.

Obama, currently, without Rodham-Clinton, is currently dead-even with McCain - 46% apiece. Its going to be close.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by punky

Poor Hillary nothing. The better candidate has apparently won (IMO). We probably haven't seen the last of her in an executive office - she'll probably now join Obama as a running mate unfortunately. It could bolster Obama's case in places where he needs it.

Obama, currently, without Rodham-Clinton, is currently dead-even with McCain - 46% apiece. Its going to be close.

But is the US ready for a black president? Poll results and actual elections are different things...

I think America is more ready for a black MALE president than a white or black WOMAN president.

[punky]

Originally Posted by danielf

But is the US ready for a black president? Poll results and actual elections are different things...

Thanks to Dubya, the US would accept nigh-on anyone at the moment. Bit confused about the poll results/elections comment though. What's an election if its not a large poll?

Originally Posted by Incognitas

I think America is more ready for a black MALE president than a white or black WOMAN president.

That isn't true Incog. Racism is a much bigger problem than sexism in the US. We elected a woman in the 80s, even before things had come along a good way. Even such-mysoganistic places like Pakistan have elected female heads in the past. Excuses are now running weak. However, much like Thatcher, Rodham-Clinton's persona is going to have more of an impact than her gender. She has garnered a lot of support - just less than Obama. Half the electorate (or thereabouts) are female. With a half-black candidate and a woman, someone was going to lose out.

I find it so odd that America has always been thought of as the country where women have true equality and yet despite all that this is the CLOSEST a woman has ever got to the presidency.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by punky

Thanks to Dubya, the US would accept nigh-on anyone at the moment. Bit confused about the poll results/elections comment though. What's an election if its not a large poll?

What I'm saying is that people are more likely to give desireable answers when asked who they will vote for. Less popular considerations (He's black) may be more likely to play a role in the actual voting booth.

[punky]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

I find it so odd that America has always been thought of as the country where women have true equality and yet despite all that this is the CLOSEST a woman has ever got to the presidency.

If no women put their heads above the parapet - then how can any woman get elected? Thatcher proved that if a woman does put herself forward (in the so-called nasty, mysoganist party), with an electable political stance, then she can win. When you are citizen that feels the repercussions of a government, politics and political actions matter, not gender.

I personally think its to do with self-belief than anything else. In politics especially, people don't want to be the first as it sets a precedent all future candidates of that ilk will be measured against. That creates a lot of pressure. If they are brilliant, people would be more willing to elect a similar candidate in the the future. Otherwise it can have the opposite effect, That's why females in power, certainly the the initial ones, tend to be the very-alpha variety. They are the ones with the confidence and self-belief to risk putting themselves open to attack, instead of the more meeker, moderate, humble, woman who may be a more suitable candidate if she ever ran.

I'm sure there are women out there that argue Thatcher hurt women's chances of being re-elected in the future. Unless Labour or the ever-so-enlightened Lib Dems, have any women in the ranks willing to step up, we'll never know. However, with Harriet Harman as deputy leader of the Labour party, who knows?

---------- Post added at 14:13 ---------- Previous post was at 14:09 ----------

Originally Posted by danielf

What I'm saying is that people are more likely to give desireable answers when asked who they will vote for. Less popular considerations (He's black) may be more likely to play a role in the actual voting booth.

But the poll results I quoted (from Daily Politics Show on BBC2 couldn't read their source) say who would someone vote for, not why. A vote for McCain could be someone who doesn't want a black president, or it could just be someone who likes McCain. If what you said was true, it would make all non-election polls invalid. If they were that inaccurate, then noone would commission them.

Originally Posted by Incognitas

I find it so odd that America has always been thought of as the country where women have true equality and yet despite all that this is the CLOSEST a woman has ever got to the presidency.

She got close though. She was the favorite by a long way before Obama took off so she did not lose because of her gender, She lost because Obama was a really powerful force that just swept people up.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by punky

That isn't true Incog. Racism is a much bigger problem than sexism in the US. We elected a woman in the 80s, even before things had come along a good way. Even such-mysoganistic places like Pakistan have elected female heads in the past. Excuses are now running weak. However, much like Thatcher, Rodham-Clinton's persona is going to have more of an impact than her gender. She has garnered a lot of support - just less than Obama. Half the electorate (or thereabouts) are female. With a half-black candidate and a woman, someone was going to lose out.

I agree about racism and also about Hillary being his running mate, Obama is a dead man walking, she could still end up as president yet

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

I agree about racism and also about Hillary being his running mate, Obama is a dead man walking, she could still end up as president yet

Why a dead man walking?

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Damien

Why a dead man walking?

Because America has a lot of racists, a lot of nut jobs and a lot of guns.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by punky

Poor Hillary nothing. The better candidate has apparently won (IMO). We probably haven't seen the last of her in an executive office - she'll probably now join Obama as a running mate unfortunately. It could bolster Obama's case in places where he needs it.

Obama, currently, without Rodham-Clinton, is currently dead-even with McCain - 46% apiece. Its going to be close.

The 'poor' bit was TIC I'd vote for Obama and if I was him I wouldn't want her at my side.

---------- Post added at 16:15 ---------- Previous post was at 16:14 ----------

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Because America has a lot of racists, a lot of nut jobs and a lot of guns.

.and that's just in the White House !!

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

I find it so odd that America has always been thought of as the country where women have true equality and yet despite all that this is the CLOSEST a woman has ever got to the presidency.

Dint Monica Lewinksy get very close too?