Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[bluecar1]

Originally Posted by r1ch

Yay - I've finally got BT to release me from my contract! Unfortunately it wasn't specifically because of the Phorm T&C changes but this morning I received an email saying that they're discontinuing the BT OpenZone access that I got included with my account and 'replacing' it with BT FON instead. Aside from the fact that this requires you to share your home bandwith it also means that you can't roam on partner networks like 'The Cloud'. I complained to customer services, saying that this meant that I now couldn't use the wireless access from my usual haunts and (after a bit of wriggling) they finally agreed to give me a MAC.

Maybe some other trapped BT customers can get out the same way?

Does anyone have any good ADSL recommendations? If VM drop Phorm then I might even try them again.

try Zen ineternet, got one of their lines very good

[OldBear]

I know a few of the lads posting over on the BT forum have many times questioned the claims by BT that their research told them we all wanted more relevant ads.

This research (link below) suggests this is a load of carp.

Web users 'getting more selfish'

Instead of dawdling on websites many users want simply to reach a site quickly, complete a task and leave.

Most ignore efforts to make them linger and are suspicious of promotions designed to hold their attention.

This makes them very resistant to highlighted promotions or other editorial choices that try to distract them.

"Web users have always been ruthless and now are even more so," said Dr Nielsen.

"People want sites to get to the point, they have very little patience," he said.

May not be 100% relevant, but interesting, IMHO.

OB

[icsys]

Originally Posted by OldBear

I know a few of the lads posting over on the BT forum have many times questioned the claims by BT that their research told them we all wanted more relevant ads.

This research (link below) suggests this is a load of carp.

Web users 'getting more selfish'

May not be 100% relevant, but interesting, IMHO.

OB

Maybe it's time this research was provided. Questions and answers.

It is a load of carp... I never click on banner ads.
If I want to buy something online I will search for the product specifically or go directly to a relevant site rather than aimlessly wonder the net waiting for a 'suitable ad' to pop up.

[Florence]

Originally Posted by r1ch

Yay - I've finally got BT to release me from my contract! Unfortunately it wasn't specifically because of the Phorm T&C changes but this morning I received an email saying that they're discontinuing the BT OpenZone access that I got included with my account and 'replacing' it with BT FON instead. Aside from the fact that this requires you to share your home bandwith it also means that you can't roam on partner networks like 'The Cloud'. I complained to customer services, saying that this meant that I now couldn't use the wireless access from my usual haunts and (after a bit of wriggling) they finally agreed to give me a MAC.

Maybe some other trapped BT customers can get out the same way?

Does anyone have any good ADSL recommendations? If VM drop Phorm then I might even try them again.

Don't go VM ADSL all my friends are complaing it grinds to almost dialup speeds in the evening and carries a 12 month contract go ADSL where yuo contract is no longer than 3 months.
I am with Aquiss and todate they have been great..

[bluecar1]

Originally Posted by Florence

Don't go VM ADSL all my friends are complaing it grinds to almost dialup speeds in the evening and carries a 12 month contract go ADSL where yuo contract is no longer than 3 months.
I am with Aquiss and todate they have been great..

zen is a 1 month contract but you do pay a setup fee (£40) , http://www.zen.co.uk/broadband/S_Business.aspx

service for setup was brilliant

peter

[phormwatch]

I have just sent in a complaint to my local Police re BT's illegal trials.

Anyone else who has or intends to complain to the police should contact the IPCC:

----------------------------

We undertake to investigate all complaints swiftly and fairly, and provide you the results of our investigation.

If your complaint relates to the conduct of a member of our staff and you are dissatisfied with the outcome of our investigation, you can contact the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC).

The IPCC, a statutory body, may manage an investigation relating to the conduct of our staff or, in some cases, conduct the enquiry themselves.

For more information, visit www.ipcc.gov.uk or write to:

The Independent Police Complaints Commission
90 High Holborn
London
WC1V 6BH.

Phone: 08453 002 002 (local rate)
Fax: 020 7404 0430
E-mail: enquiries@ipcc.gsi.gov.uk

[Florence]

Originally Posted by bluecar1

zen is a 1 month contract but you do pay a setup fee (£40) , http://www.zen.co.uk/broadband/S_Business.aspx

service for setup was brilliant

peter

If you have a MAC key there is no setup fee the only ones who would pay an activation fee are those returning to IP stream from LLU ISP or Cable new home move. Migration from IPstream to IPstream is free with a MAC key..

[AlexanderHanff]

Originally Posted by phormwatch

I have just sent in a complaint to my local Police re BT's illegal trials.

Anyone else who has or intends to complain to the police should contact the IPCC:

----------------------------

We undertake to investigate all complaints swiftly and fairly, and provide you the results of our investigation.

If your complaint relates to the conduct of a member of our staff and you are dissatisfied with the outcome of our investigation, you can contact the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC).

The IPCC, a statutory body, may manage an investigation relating to the conduct of our staff or, in some cases, conduct the enquiry themselves.

For more information, visit www.ipcc.gov.uk or write to:

The Independent Police Complaints Commission
90 High Holborn
London
WC1V 6BH.

Phone: 08453 002 002 (local rate)
Fax: 020 7404 0430
E-mail: enquiries@ipcc.gsi.gov.uk

Just be careful, there are two routes a complaint can take. The police will contact you and ask if you will allow them to deal with the complaint locally or send it directly to the IPCC. Be warned, if you allow them to deal with it locally there is no appeal process and it is likely they will do nothing of any worth.

They will use smooth words to try and persuade you that they will deal with the complaint objectively but if you really want a solution you must insist on it going directly to the IPCC.

Alexander Hanff

[ImaJack]

Hello,
As you can see I'm a new subscriber to this forum, but I have read all the posts and I joined to give my moral support in the fight against Phorm and its like.I'm not even a VM customer but I have found this thread has the most comprehensive coverage of Webwise/ Phorm issues.

I'm perhaps typical of an ordinary customer, not particularly au fait with the technical side of things but can do the basics to enable me to find the information which interests me on the internet. I don't want to have to jump through hoops to do this. I try to take all the reasonable steps to safeguard my privacy and security against all the malware out there but I never imagined that would include the service provider (BT) to whom I pay a not inconsiderable sum each month.

I've often thought I'm paying over the odds staying with BT but I've had good service up to recently with only the odd interruption to my service and help when needed, although understanding Indian accents can be challenging at times

However in the last year I've began to have doubts about that service since I've had a couple of instance where BT have been less than honest with me including increasing my direct debit without my permission and then lying to me by saying I had agreed to it.

One thing though, I do not want to pay them to sell my details to another company, one which had its beginnings in using spyware. I part with my money for them to supply me with internet access and that's it.

I'm just surprised that BT could ever imagine that their secret trials would be forever "secret" and it seems to me that the way they have behaved in recent weeks gives me the impression that they mean to continue using Phorm even though they are aware of possible legal problems ahead and that there is a sizeable minority of their customers are very disgruntled - to say the least.

Fortunately for me my contract with BT expires early in June and I have already applied for my MAC and received it. In one way I'll be sorry to leave because as stated above, I have had pretty good service - until recently. I do feel however they have let me down and in a way betrayed the trust between myself and the company I paid for a service.

I have a question too, before I leave BT what should I do if in the unlikely event I am invited to participate in the Webwise trial. I understand from previous posts that even if I opt out, far from my details staying within the BT network they might actually pass through some site in the US notorious for hosting phishing adware. How is this going to affect my internet use. It's almost like a Catch 22 situation, opt in and Phorm get all your personal details opt out and Phorm still get all your details. Or is this too simplistic?

Anyway keep up the good work, I know I'm just a customer and there are aspects of this for website owners that are probably just as, if not more, important but even as a lone individual I think BT are abusing their position.

[Florence]

ImaJack if you are asked to take part you can then once it is over migrate to another ISP like Aquiss, Zen or Fast.co.uk who are all not going to take part in phorm phenomina.. They like to treat customers with respect...

I would urge you not to put any details on the other website and infact complain to BT about the rewuest for identifiable information.

[icsys]

Hi ImaJack, welcome to the forums.

I haven't been here long myself but I have been a VM customer for over 12 yrs.
Like yourself, I read all the posts and I joined to give my moral support in the fight against Phorm.

I just wish there were hundreds more that would post to show support whether they be BT, VM or CPW customers.
I feel there is still a lot of apathy towards Phorm amongst the majority of customers (either because they still haven't heard of webwise or they think of it simply as ads that can be turned off). I just hope I am proven wrong when the time is right.

[Rchivist]

Originally Posted by icsys

Maybe it's time this research was provided. Questions and answers.

It is a load of carp... I never click on banner ads.
If I want to buy something online I will search for the product specifically or go directly to a relevant site rather than aimlessly wonder the net waiting for a 'suitable ad' to pop up.

I've asked BT repeatedly for it. They don't seem to want to publish it but haven't ruled out doing so in the future. I doubt it will ever see the light of day.

[Phormic Acid]

Originally Posted by ImaJack

I have a question too, before I leave BT what should I do if in the unlikely event I am invited to participate in the Webwise trial. I understand from previous posts that even if I opt out, far from my details staying within the BT network they might actually pass through some site in the US notorious for hosting phishing adware. How is this going to affect my internet use. It's almost like a Catch 22 situation, opt in and Phorm get all your personal details opt out and Phorm still get all your details. Or is this too simplistic?

In Phorm’s original description, their system did indeed mirror the web traffic of all users. We were later told that the system had been modified, so that only the web traffic of those users who had opted-in would be copied and processed. It seems this was done to reduce the chance of legal challenge. However, given the inability of the government, police and the Information Commissioner’s Office to take action against BT over their covert trials, it’s difficult to know whether Phorm feel they are constrained by much of the interception and data protection legislation.

Ideally, you’d like to decline to take part in the trial. Unfortunately, as you say, BT are making you an offer you can’t refuse. If a trial starts in your area, you’ll be testing at least some part of the system designed and built by Phorm. The three options are:

1. Choose to opt in at the invitation page. You’ll be testing most of the system. A Phorm-controlled computer, the Channel Server, will receive a stream of data consisting of your search terms and a good proportion of the web page addresses for the pages you look at. This could conceivably be used to reconstruct a large part of your web browsing. I would not recommend this option.
2. Choose to opt out at the invitation page. You’ll be testing the part that monitors, copies and fakes cookies. You’ll be testing the part that prevents your browsing details from being passed on.
3. Choose to block cookies from webwise.net. You’ll be testing the part designed to detect this and prevent never-ending loops. This is covered in the latest update by Richard Clayton to his technical description of the Phorm system, when Phorm suddenly remembered how this part of their system works. Again, you’ll be testing the part that prevents your browsing details from being passed on.

Given that we finally know how the blocking of webwise.net cookies will be detected, I would recommend option three as the least worst. There had been a risk that option three would have had a significant impact on your browsing experience, but now we know this shouldn’t be the case.

BT have promised a system that will allow a subscriber to completely remove their broadband connection from the Phorm system, but this will be available only after the trials. If a trial causes users significant problems, the subscriber will not be able to withdraw from it. Also, there’s a chance that this option will never be made available. For this reason, I recommend all BT customers do as you’re doing, by moving to a new ISP as soon as is practical.

[Florence]

Originally Posted by Portly_Giraffe

Looking at the IP addresses of the various domains, I would conclude that BT are using the long bank holiday weekend to rehost the Phorm service at Gyron Internet in London E14 on 89.145.112.31 and 89.145.112.32 with backup for the most service-critical function (OIX) at Fasthosts on 88.208.250.85.

Any comments?

It certainly suggests that substantial parts of any Phorm system implemented by BT would not be hosted directly by BT though of course this may be consistent with the published design saved in a message a few thousand back from here.

Websites on one Gyron Internet server at 89.145.112.31:
blog.phorm.com
blog.webwise.com

Websites on two Gyron Internet servers at 89.145.112.31 and 89.145.112.32:
www.121media.com
www.openinternetalliance.com
www.openinternetalliance.net
www.openinternetalliance.org
www.phorm.com
www.webwise.com
www.webwise.net
www.webwise.org
www.youcanoptout.com
www.youcanoptout.net
www.youcanoptout.org

Websites which now appear to be on two Gyron Internet servers at 89.145.112.31 and 89.145.112.32 and one Fasthost server at 88.208.250.85:
www.oix.com
www.oix.net
(www.oix.org is already taken by a non-Phorm company)
www.openinternetexchange.com
www.openinternetexchange.net
www.openinternetexchange.org

Remaining at Fasthosts in Gloucester UK:
webwise.bt.com - maybe to be abandoned?
www.tecreports.co.uk - unrelated to Phorm

Remaining at ThePlanet.com in Houston TX:
www.webwise.bt.com
youcanoptin.com
youcanoptin.net
youcanoptin.org

Please correct this if I've misinterpreted anything.

It's strange that the youcanoptin domains have been left in the US while the youcanoptout domains have been moved to what appears to be the production site. Maybe the ICO should give a view?

This would sort of mean they are still not putting the servers inside BT so all who either sopt in or out are still doing this outside their ISPs network opening them up to more privacy invasion since BT will not have any control or access to these servers.

Might also be worth checking these again think Phorm are manipulating NS to hide locations.

[BadPhormula]

[quote]
Just to check, you weren't asked to leave the BadPhorm forums were you over the crunchgate affair, that was the best post I've ever seen. BadPhorm is a boreing place without your posts.

If it was up to me I'd say get the hell back on BadPhorm, we've got some dirty scoundrels that need rooting out.
[EoQ]

No I wasn't asked to leave.. If I was I'd probably still be there quietly defying

Re: the crunchgate affair, yes it was me and I kinda guess that everyone else knows it was me. I signed the message as 'BadPhorm' by mistake, I left off the 'ula', a slip up. I've got no problems with calling Kunt Ertugrul and Shatis Scleparis criminals, I don't give a ph~ck about slandering or libeling those c~nts. However they will never sue 'anyone' for libel for two reasons mainly.
1) They are criminals so by default it isn't libel.
2) They wouldn't pursue me in court because it would bring too much attention to their sneaking around in the murky sh~t they are floating in, that is Phorm/121Media sh~t.

Coming back to why I left Badphorm.co.uk (left as in not daily posting) I see this anti-phorm project as two distinct sub-projects, for me.

1) The ongoing public debate and organising a wider awareness of the threat Phorm (and their **** ISP partners) present to free British people through profiling and sifting over personal data.

2) My contribution effort as I see it, is to organise and spread information about how people can defend themselves through the use of encryption technology. I'm not talking about some grand plan to turn everyone into a techie with a complete understanding of cyberspace self-defense, but a basic level of awareness of the tools and techniques available.

I was planning on compiling a Linux Live-CD similar to Knoppix but aimed at the Phormoid privacy problem... And calling it something like "Phormonix"



The problem with sub-project no.1 with regard to posting on a place like BadPhorm is that I tend to rub people up the wrong way, they don't seem to get my sardonic brand of satire. Yes I am quite rude and over the top and this is likely to upset some of the other posters, my guess is that most people like to live in a cordial, friendly none abrasive environment all speaking polite parliamentary language. (and all this time Phormscum are laughing their b~llocks off at the quaint opposition). I say we should round the ph~ckers up with pitch forks then hang them upside down by their testicles (but hey I'm a progressive liberal). But seriously I feel I will not be able to tame my vociferous minority voice without continually falling foul of Jim's AUP.

I am obviously in the top league table for number of posts deleted or mod'd and I'm quite happy I was instrumental in getting the Phorm shill and lameduck troll 'Hamster Wheel' K/B dispatched from BadPhorm. Anyhow I think it might be best to setup my own phpBB and rant and rave over there. You've got my webaddress so keep checking! LOL

Btw I've posted this to CF forum and BadPhorm for fun but withheld your nim hope that hasn't set the cat amongst the pigeons for you.

regards
BadPhorm'ula