Teenager faces prosecution for calling Scientology 'cult'

[danielf]

Originally Posted by punky

Thankfully it was only Scientology and not Islam eh?

As a side note I see The Grauniad is still trying to masquerade as a serious news source, whilst stealing bandwidth from other hosts. Their hotlinked picture has now been replaced with a goatse pic. Also interesting is that Shami Chakrabarti is still completely separate from reality.

I had a nosey around that site they hotlinked to. Weird...

[handyman]

[quote=downquark1;34556380]This is not entirely true. It is my understanding that Thetans are the souls of murdered aliens that cling to human bodies causing mental unrest.

Odd double post , sorry about that.

[punky]

Originally Posted by danielf

I had a nosey around that site they hotlinked to. Weird...

I just looked The Grauniad journos view some weird old sites.

[etccarmageddon]

whenever I'm in manchester and walking past the Scientology 'shop' on Deansgate I shout CULT and I haven't been arrested yet. Perhaps I should open the door next time and make sure they can hear me properly.

[Saul's Grandad]

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

whenever I'm in manchester and walking past the Scientology 'shop' on Deansgate I shout CULT and I haven't been arrested yet. Perhaps I should open the door next time and make sure they can hear me properly.

Perhaps they thought you were shouting something else which has a similar spelling but is a whole lot ruder Fair enough...they don't like being called a cult but being called "something else with a similar spelling to cult" is OK

[danielf]

Originally Posted by punky

I just looked The Grauniad journos view some weird old sites.

The should feel lucky the pic was replaced by one of a goat

[BBKing]

Also interesting is that Shami Chakrabarti is still completely separate from reality.

Let's just check that out, punky:

The case was described as "barmy" and an attack on free speech by Shami Chakrabarti, the director of Liberty, the human rights group.

She said: "They will be banning words like 'war' and 'tax' from placards and demonstrations next. This is just barmy."

What's separate from reality about that, precisely? Seems to express much the same opinions as most of us here.

[greencreeper]

Originally Posted by Russ B

As much as I view Catholicism with distain, my respect for you has dropped quite sharply with that potentially libelous post

Anyway, what's wrong with calling Scientology a cult?

Limited thinkers <sigh>

I have no fixed view. I was simply musing on the fact that the definition of a cult does seem to vary greatly, and established religions often have the features of a cult but are not labelled as such because of, well, a few centuries of history.

Taking Catholicism... There's a fair bit of chanting and rituals, including one (common to Christianity) whereby wine and bread are believed to become the blood and body of a long-dead god - and are then consumed. Unsafe sex is advocated, endangering the health of believers. And I doubt any country has been left untouched by the scandal of abusive priests. Sounds very cult-like to me.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by greencreeper

Taking Catholicism... There's a fair bit of chanting and rituals, including one (common to Christianity) whereby wine and bread are believed to become the blood and body of a long-dead god - and are then consumed. Unsafe sex is advocated, endangering the health of believers. And I doubt any country has been left untouched by the scandal of abusive priests. Sounds very cult-like to me.

OK now you've gone in to a little more detail, your post is slightly less offensive....

Firstly I have no argument against people saying there are rituals in Catholicism (too many IMO), and your comments on communion - our God is NOT long-dead. I could go in to detail about the meaning behind Communion but that would be long-winded, off topic and invite more pointless posts about 'genocidal tyrants'.

Catholicism (which actually promotes abstinance over unsafe sex by the way) has had priests who abuse children, that is not in question. But you said Catholicism 'practices' it. My mother (and most of her family) is a Catholic and in private you're entitled to any opinion you're comfortable with but to implicate my family in that, indirectly or directly, I won't let you get off that easily.

Originally Posted by punky

Thankfully it was only Scientology and not Islam eh?

As a side note I see The Grauniad is still trying to masquerade as a serious news source, whilst stealing bandwidth from other hosts. Their hotlinked picture has now been replaced with a goatse pic. Also interesting is that Shami Chakrabarti is still completely separate from reality.

She said

Liberty director, Shami Chakrabarti, said: "This barmy prosecution makes a mockery of Britain's free speech traditions.
"After criminalising the use of the word 'cult', perhaps the next step is to ban the words 'war' and 'tax' from peaceful demonstrations?"

May I ask what is "separate from reality" about that - it seems a logical progression (imho).

[punky]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

May I ask what is "separate from reality" about that - it seems a logical progression (imho).

I should point out there seems to be two different quotes floating about:

"After criminalising the use of the word 'cult', perhaps the next step is to ban the words 'war' and 'tax' from peaceful demonstrations?" -- The Guardian

They will be banning words like 'war' and 'tax' from placards and demonstrations next. This is just barmy." -- The Telegraph

Which are different.

Firstly, she is getting confused between the police and politicans. The politicans make the laws the police have to enforce them to the best of their description and intrepretation. Basically its upto to each individual copper to analyse the text and decide whether he suspects a crime is being committed. They have no power to make nor change laws. You'd think Chakrabarti would understand that.

The police have taken action here (following complaints which is unsuprising as it was in front of a CoS building), not the government. However Chakrabarti switches from the police to the government "They will be banning words like 'war' and 'tax'" which is solely a political matter. The government passed laws against religious hatred (along with race, etc) some time ago, not the 10th May.

Secondly whilst her trademark bitter sarcasm which seems to do her well, she's also using her argument "reducto ad absurdiam" (or thereabouts, been ages since I did latin). Trying to extrapolate calling a religion a "dangerous cult" to outlawing all mentioning of war or tax in protests is, putting it kindly, absurd. That's not really how an experienced spokeswoman for a leading human rights organisation should be putting her arguments across.

Thirdly, the protester hasn't been "criminalised" The CPS haven't even decided whether charges can be brought yet. She needs to brush up on her knowlege of due process as well.

Finally, I heavily suspect she'd have kept her gob shut if it were Christian BNP protesters outside of a mosque calling it a dangerous cult, but then that's just my supposition.

[frogstamper]

Rude or not, cult describes this bunch of loonies very aptly.

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by punky

The police have taken action here (following complaints which is unsuprising as it was in front of a CoS building), not the government. However Chakrabarti switches from the police to the government "They will be banning words like 'war' and 'tax'" which is solely a political matter. The government passed laws against religious hatred (along with race, etc) some time ago, not the 10th May.

Secondly whilst her trademark bitter sarcasm which seems to do her well, she's also using her argument "reducto ad absurdiam" (or thereabouts, been ages since I did latin). Trying to extrapolate calling a religion a "dangerous cult" to outlawing all mentioning of war or tax in protests is, putting it kindly, absurd. That's not really how an experienced spokeswoman for a leading human rights organisation should be putting her arguments across.

I suggest you read up on Scientology. If it is unfair to call it a cult, the word should be retired from the language.

Just because something calls itself a religion doesn't make it so.

This of course is not a real argument, but you remember that Simpsons episode where they join that cult to worship the "leader" that was based on scientology.

[punky]

Originally Posted by downquark1

I suggest you read up on Scientology. If it is unfair to call it a cult, the word should be retired from the language.

Just because something calls itself a religion doesn't make it so.

This of course is not a real argument, but you remember that Simpsons episode where they join that cult to worship the "leader" that was based on scientology.

I suggest you read my post again.

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by punky

I suggest you read my post again.

Ah, I appreciate the inconsistencies/inaccuracies in the statements, and I very much doubt charges will in fact be brought. However this seems to highlight either a misapplication of law (failure of police) or a law that is too strict (failure of parliament).

However you seem invoke parity with Islam, which is inappropriate when you consider the documented actions of the Scientology "organisation".

The police have taken action here (following complaints which is unsuprising as it was in front of a CoS building)

I'm not sure what your implying here? Is it illegal to protest outside a private building?