Illegal Cable Box

[supremus]

Originally Posted by shawty

Look, this is easy. He is reporting a crime, do you get that?

I've never suggested I didn't get that.

He might not think that the copyright law is a good enough law to report, hypocrite? Maybe, so what?

We don't know if that is the case or not, hence my inquiry. Is that ok, or are you suggesting that we turn this into a statement forum rather than a discussion one? We could have exciting threads like "theft is theft", which would be closed after the initial post, of course, as the subject doesn't warrant discussion.

Its all subjective anyway, as he has not aired his views on the off topic point. I dont see what more there is to discuss about him reporting a crime, wether you think he should report every crime or not.

Again, you'll have to forgive me if I don't adhere to your instructions for when a given subject has been exhausted or not. I'm still interested why someone would take such an aggressive view on as minor an offence as cable theft, and ignore, or perhaps even commit more serious ones themselves.

Originally Posted by don_1

Im going to report BOTH of them on Monday...

Please keep us posted on your progress.

[shawty]

Originally Posted by supremus

I've never suggested I didn't get that.

We don't know if that is the case or not, hence my inquiry. Is that ok, or are you suggesting that we turn this into a statement forum rather than a discussion one? We could have exciting threads like "theft is theft", which would be closed after the initial post, of course, as the subject doesn't warrant discussion.

Again, you'll have to forgive me if I don't adhere to your instructions for when a given subject has been exhausted or not. I'm still interested why someone would take such an aggressive view on as minor an offence as cable theft, and ignore, or perhaps even commit more serious ones themselves.

Please keep us posted on your progress.

But we have been through this before on a similar thread and it went no where. The whole point was the people were coming on and posting they had been getting cable illegally, which some of us said is not on, for the fact that not only is it illegal, but this is a forum built on the basis of helping people who have cable, its down right silly and rude to come on and tell people you are getting it free.

Anyway, back to the point. This thread is about illegal cable boxes and the original poster wanting to report someone for it and rightly so, how then is a discussion born from illegal cable boxes to wanting to know what other crimes the OP is willing to report. In my opinion, there is more of a motive than just wanting to know what other crimes he would report and to be honest, I dont see what it has to do with the topic at all.

[don_1]

Originally Posted by supremus

I've never suggested I didn't get that.

We don't know if that is the case or not, hence my inquiry. Is that ok, or are you suggesting that we turn this into a statement forum rather than a discussion one? We could have exciting threads like "theft is theft", which would be closed after the initial post, of course, as the subject doesn't warrant discussion.

Again, you'll have to forgive me if I don't adhere to your instructions for when a given subject has been exhausted or not. I'm still interested why someone would take such an aggressive view on as minor an offence as cable theft, and ignore, or perhaps even commit more serious ones themselves.

Please keep us posted on your progress.

Why are some people here saying that VM couldnt care less if people are stealing their service? I know most pay the minimum subscription, but still...

Originally Posted by don_1

Why are some people here saying that VM couldnt care less if people are stealing their service? I know most pay the minimum subscription, but still...

To be fair its because the signal is always on..only thing the boxes do is descramble the channels..the bandwith is already being used by VM constantly sending the signal down...so its really no loss to them if someone uses illegal boxes and what not, par from PPV/Filmflex etc.

It's when you get people who have multiple boxes etc that it caues problems.

[supremus]

Originally Posted by don_1

Why are some people here saying that VM couldnt care less if people are stealing their service? I know most pay the minimum subscription, but still...

In the case of people who pay the minimum subscription, and particularly if they take phone and broadband as well, Virgin are actually making more money than they're losing, which is negligible. Some people will claim Virgin are losing money whenever a pirate watches, say a premium movie channel, but this simply isn't true, as this is not something the person in question would have paid for in the first place anyway, and there is no significant drain on network bandwidth. They're just watching it for free, because they can.

In the case of complete free-loaders, people who take no services, but just leech of a previously installed line, there is a small incentive for Virgin to disconnect those in oversubscribed areas, but only in very rare cases will they bother prosecuting someone like that. Partly because it isn't likely to be a winning outcome for them, but also because it just costs too much to investigate the claim and take the appropriate legal action.

The main reason cable companies take any kind of action, like we have seen them do recently through the encryption system, is that they are contractually obligated to provide a reasonable level of protection for their content, as demanded by their content providers. Also, if piracy gets past a certain point, it would most likely cost them, so it's really all about finding the right balance, so the numbers add up. At the end of the day, it's not a morality issue for them, it's a money issue, and if they can get £15-20 pounds a month, or however much their basic package is, that's going to be a lot more profitable for them than getting £0 by disconnecting someone with an illegal box and other services.

Anyway, let us know how you get on.

[the-cable-guy]

Originally Posted by shawty

Oh brilliant reply there, well done.

i wasnt condoning it im just saying that they claim it back so it doesnt cost them a penny.

---------- Post added at 23:52 ---------- Previous post was at 23:50 ----------

Originally Posted by shawty

Look, this is easy. He is reporting a crime, do you get that? He might not think that the copyright law is a good enough law to report, hypocrite? Maybe, so what? Its all subjective anyway, as he has not aired his views on the off topic point. I dont see what more there is to discuss about him reporting a crime, wether you think he should report every crime or not.

maybe cuz he's guilty of downloading illegal torrents.

---------- Post added at 23:54 ---------- Previous post was at 23:52 ----------

Originally Posted by TraxData

To be fair its because the signal is always on..only thing the boxes do is descramble the channels..the bandwith is already being used by VM constantly sending the signal down...so its really no loss to them if someone uses illegal boxes and what not, par from PPV/Filmflex etc.

It's when you get people who have multiple boxes etc that it caues problems.

erm thats not the whole story, yes the signal is always on but if someone has a dodgy connection then it messes everyone elses signals levels up.

Originally Posted by the-cable-guy

iv worked in shops & they just claim it back from their insurance.

When ANYONE claims from the insurance their future premiums go UP.The company concerned passes this increase onto the customers so when a crime is committed the customer ends up paying for it.There are NO victimless crimes.

[the-cable-guy]

Originally Posted by supremus

In the case of people who pay the minimum subscription, and particularly if they take phone and broadband as well, Virgin are actually making more money than they're losing, which is negligible. Some people will claim Virgin are losing money whenever a pirate watches, say a premium movie channel, but this simply isn't true, as this is not something the person in question would have paid for in the first place anyway, and there is no significant drain on network bandwidth. They're just watching it for free, because they can.

In the case of complete free-loaders, people who take no services, but just leech of a previously installed line, there is a small incentive for Virgin to disconnect those in oversubscribed areas, but only in very rare cases will they bother prosecuting someone like that. Partly because it isn't likely to be a winning outcome for them, but also because it just costs too much to investigate the claim and take the appropriate legal action.

The main reason cable companies take any kind of action, like we have seen them do recently through the encryption system, is that they are contractually obligated to provide a reasonable level of protection for their content, as demanded by their content providers. Also, if piracy gets past a certain point, it would most likely cost them, so it's really all about finding the right balance, so the numbers add up. At the end of the day, it's not a morality issue for them, it's a money issue, and if they can get £15-20 pounds a month, or however much their basic package is, that's going to be a lot more profitable for them than getting £0 by disconnecting someone with an illegal box and other services.

Anyway, let us know how you get on.

still it doesnt make it right tho does it, erm no.

[shawty]

Originally Posted by the-cable-guy

i wasnt condoning it im just saying that they claim it back so it doesnt cost them a penny.

---------- Post added at 23:52 ---------- Previous post was at 23:50 ----------



maybe cuz he's guilty of downloading illegal torrents.

---------- Post added at 23:54 ---------- Previous post was at 23:52 ----------



erm thats not the whole story, yes the signal is always on but if someone has a dodgy connection then it messes everyone elses signals levels up.

I wasnt talking about that, I was talking about your reply to me with your roll eyes smiley.

Also I think you will it will most likely cost them a penny as insurance costs will rise.

[the-cable-guy]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

When ANYONE claims from the insurance their future premiums go UP.The company concerned passes this increase onto the customers so when a crime is committed the customer ends up paying for it.There are NO victimless crimes.

i didnt say that it was victimless however shops are insured to the hills, dont kid yourself.

---------- Post added at 23:56 ---------- Previous post was at 23:56 ----------

Originally Posted by shawty

I wasnt talking about that, I was talking about your reply to me with your roll eyes smiley.

Also I think you will it will most likely cost them a penny as insurance costs will rise.

see my reply to Incognitas above.

[supremus]

Originally Posted by the-cable-guy

still it doesnt make it right tho does it, erm no.

I haven't said it did, have I? Erm no.

Still, if the cable company makes more money from semi-pirates than they otherwise would, and don't seem interested in doing much to stop it, who's to say what's right and wrong. It's all about money.

[the-cable-guy]

while i agree with you its still illegal thats all that im saying.

[shawty]

Originally Posted by the-cable-guy

i didnt say that it was victimless however shops are insured to the hills, dont kid yourself.

---------- Post added at 23:56 ---------- Previous post was at 23:56 ----------



see my reply to Incognitas above.

Which didnt address anything. Just because they are insured, does not mean it doesnt cost them anything. Claiming on insurance will rise your premuim, which in turn like Incognitas said, will most likely be passed onto the customer.

[the-cable-guy]

mate with shops their insurance companies cover them for lost/stolen goods as its to be expected. anyways we're getting abit side tracked here the OP was on about cable not shops.

Originally Posted by Enuff

Don_1, if you are going to report this guy, shouldn't you also report the people who are providing the dodgy boxes?

Why?If he doesn't know whom is supplying these boxes how and why should he?You are just dragging in any spurious reason to justify the fact that you are the sort to turn a blind eye because you don't think it's a crime.

Well if you can live with it that's your prerogative.However you can't then later complain if you find someone cloning from your service and you end up paying the bill can you,because in your rule book it's not a crime.

The fact is the law makes no distinction between stealing cars or cable tv,a stick of chewing gum or Nike trainers.It's all theft.