Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[lucevans]

Originally Posted by eddcase

I wonder if the 20meg customers are the experimental group? Their connections seem to have been up and down like yoyo's. .

This would explain VM's eagerness to stop using the transparent proxies on it's networks last year - it had nothing to do with "improving performance" and everything to do with converting those proxies to the hardware data-intercept devices for the Phorm system.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by eddcase

I wonder if the 20meg customers are the experimental group? Their connections seem to have been up and down like yoyo's. .

Would not surprise me one little bit.

---------- Post added at 18:28 ---------- Previous post was at 18:27 ----------

Originally Posted by lucevans

This would explain VM's eagerness to stop using the transparent proxies on it's networks last year - it had nothing to do with "improving performance" and everything to do with converting those proxies to the hardware data-intercept devices for the Phorm system.

Now that make's perfect sense

[Toto]

Originally Posted by lucevans

This would explain VM's eagerness to stop using the transparent proxies on it's networks last year - it had nothing to do with "improving performance" and everything to do with converting those proxies to the hardware data-intercept devices for the Phorm system.

Ermmm....ok, I think we are getting into tin foil hat territory here.

I don't like this system anymore than any other VM customer here, but this wild speculation is taking things a tad far.

If its that bad, we should start moving to other networks now rather than playing the conspiracy theories till our noses bleed.

[Morden]

Originally Posted by Stuart C

Look a few posts up. BT have already trialled this system, and El Reg has got hold of a leaked presentation that goes into some details on how it works. Basically, the packets are intercepted and processed at the network switch level.

Can you post the link on this, I am quite interested to see how this works as if it uses the network layer of the OSI model as you have said then it is running at very low level for this type of software as that would mean its working on packets. I have tried looking up , but cannot find this information.

If its on application layer then blocking becomes easier.

[Florence]

Originally Posted by Morden

Can you post the link on this, I am quite interested to see how this works as if it uses the network layer of the OSI model as you have said then it is running at very low level for this type of software as that would mean its working on packets. I have tried looking up , but cannot find this information.

If its on application layer then blocking becomes easier.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02...orm_documents/

Very dissapointed that Virgin are taking this path infact IF I wanted spam I wouldn't filter it before I download. This is the same thing highjacking my connection to filter spam to me.. This should be illegal I will be opting out I also think there should be an orginasation in place to fine companies that do this once a customer has opted out along the same lines as cold callin I registered with TPS so I had help to stop companies cald calling me to sell me things I hadn't asked for.

[Morden]

I did see a link, but this talked about netsense, which I would think is a similar program to websense which is a program that the government and other large corporations use to limit what their internal users can access over the intranet. E.g. block facebook etc

If thats what this is, then I would be more worried about the ISP's blocking access to websites as this is more likely the use to which this will be put in the long run.

I would think the likes of pirate bay etc will be blocked when this is implented.

I think this will solve your problems anyway :- http://www.freeproxy.ru/en/free_proxy/cgi-proxy.htm

I also checked and the program needs to store a cookie on your pc, cookies off will stop it as it will not have an id to assign to you. The id is stored on ithe cookie it puts in your PC .

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Morden

I did see a link, but this talked about netsense, which I would think is a similar program to websense which is a program that the government and other large corporations use to limit what their internal users can access over the intranet. E.g. block facebook etc

If thats what this is, then I would be more worried about the ISP's blocking access to websites as this is more likely the use to which this will be put in the long run.

I would think the likes of pirate bay etc will be blocked when this is implented.

I think this will slve your problems anyway :- http://www.freeproxy.ru/en/free_proxy/cgi-proxy.htm

If they were just running netsense for site blocking, I doubt they would run profiling hardware, and it certainly wouldn't make the extensive use of cookies shown in those diagrams.

[Florence]

I have sent email to TPS and MPS requesting if they could look into this and see if they can work out a way to protect those opting out from being high-jacked over the internet.

Also this might be a good place to look for help if enough complain about the highjacking just maybe this will be stopped or made that you have to opt in...

http://www.ico.gov.uk/

[Morden]

Switch the cookies off and the app wont work properly as it will not know who you are etc. Browsing is a bit more of a pain, but the phorm will not work and do this along with a web proxy for browsing and your invisible to them. I put a link to a proxy in my last post.

This will work as well :- http://www.torproject.org/.

If everyone uses this then Virgin not make any money from your data as it wont have any data to sell. It is also rumoured that the phorm uses a rootkit that it installs on your PC, so bookmark this link :- http://www.antirootkit.com if this turns out to be true, you will get the tools here to remove the rootkit.

There is a Firefox addon that you can use as well :- https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3173

Though a word of warning if you do use a webproxy or TOR then you may open yourself up to virus's so make sure you know what you are doing before deciding to use it.

[lucevans]

Originally Posted by Toto

Ermmm....ok, I think we are getting into tin foil hat territory here.

I don't like this system anymore than any other VM customer here, but this wild speculation is taking things a tad far.

If its that bad, we should start moving to other networks now rather than playing the conspiracy theories till our noses bleed.

I'm sorry if it sounded like I was stating a fact...I was just speculating

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Morden

I did see a link, but this talked about netsense, which I would think is a similar program to websense which is a program that the government and other large corporations use to limit what their internal users can access over the intranet. E.g. block facebook etc

Though websense is bypasable as it filters the request to the DNS and rejects based on a black list provided by Websense and custom sites added by the eer. In fact often if you go straight for the IP address it will be bypassed and you get to the site. This is far more ingrained into the network.

Originally Posted by Morden

If thats what this is, then I would be more worried about the ISP's blocking access to websites as this is more likely the use to which this will be put in the long run.

Which would be against ISP code of conduct, bit like a telco companies deciding to bar calling to certain other people or places.

[Morden]

My experience of websense is that if unique login is active then you cannot bypass it. e.g. LDAP to access the network.

Though as I said in my last post if you use a web proxy or TOR then you can bypass Phorm and TOR will definitely work.

The Firefox plugin looks interesting as well as it generates spoof web traffic, making the analysing of the data harder. It does mention for that it is for avoiding Googles and yahoos equivalents so hopefully it will work against Phorm.

[dav]

Has anyone sent details of this to the BBC website? At least that is mass coverage. Their 'Click' programme may well be interested.

[Morden]

The guardian has already covered it, so I guess they will be keeping tabs on how it develops. http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/technology/

[hOrZa]

Bill Thompson an independent journalist and regular commentator on the BBC World Service. makes a mention of it on his blog, expect to see it on his BBC website column soon

http://www.thebillblog.com/billblog/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7250971.stm