Another MP in trouble?

[ntluser]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

You don't have to submit to HMRC timesheets for your employees.
As long as you can show how much you've paid them, and that they've paid the required amount of tax, they're happy. I used to run my own business with my ex as my company secretary!

This has nothing to do with there being a relationship between the person paid and the person paying.
Had he paid Mrs Mop off the street the same amount and Conway not been able to provide evidence that the work was done by her, he'd be in the same state.

Can you please understand, the issue is not that a family member was employed, but that Conway is unable to prove that the person paid to do the work actually did it.
You'll also notice that the comittee is unable to provide any evidence that his son did not do the work, it acknowledges the work was done and his son was qualified to do the work.
It also acknowledges that his son was on the lowest pay scale, so not over paid.
The issue of overpayment comes from the bonuses, which the comittee disagrees with.

Storm, teacup, severely dealt with by the party which makes a change from how Labour treat similar cases.

However, if you do have the timesheets your case does a lot more credible.

If he had paid a complete stranger there would be less suspicion of collusion. It would't mean any collusion wasn't there just that it appears less likely.

You stress that the committee were unable to prove things against him.

I stress that he was unable to prove his complete innocence and as an MP I would have expected that he would have appreciated the need for scrupulous transparency and good business organisation.

If he had got away with this there would be no change and indeed this sloppiness would continue. Now MPs have had another warning shot fired across their bows with the message that they need to get their affairs in order.

I doubt if we will agree on this as I am fed up with sleaze in government particularly as MPs are paid 2 or 3 times the average national salary and many honest people exist on a lot less. I seriously question if we have any MPs with sufficient integrity to do what's best for the country but's that another story.

[Xaccers]

Sorry? Again, this is Britain, the burden of proof is on the accuser not the accused!

Is there a legal or parlimental requirement to keep timesheets or evidence of work? No, there wasn't, and that's why he's not been punished for that.
Should there be? Yes, it makes sense, but you can't make the introduction of such a requirement retroactive can you?

[TheNorm]

Just before going to bed last night, I spent half an hour reading through the report from the Standards and Privileges Committee (http://www.publications.parliament.u.../280/28002.htm)

The main findings were:

31. Taking together our assessments of the salary level paid to FC, and the number of hours for which he was remunerated, we are of the view that Mr Conway misused the Staffing Allowance...

They suggested he repay the money, and face a 10 day suspension.

He broke a rule, was found out, and was punished. OK, now can we move on?

[Osem]

Originally Posted by TheNorm

Just before going to bed last night, I spent half an hour reading through the report from the Standards and Privileges Committee (http://www.publications.parliament.u.../280/28002.htm)

The main findings were:



They suggested he repay the money, and face a 10 day suspension.

He broke a rule, was found out, and was punished. OK, now can we move on?

Move on from what exactly? A discussion about MP's breaking rules? You're free to move on whenever you like but why is it necessary for anyone else to do so if they think it's a subject worthy of debate?

[TheNorm]

Originally Posted by Osem

Move on from what exactly? A discussion about MP's breaking rules? You're free to move on whenever you like but why is it necessary for anyone else to do so if they think it's a subject worthy of debate?

I was referring to the media trying to turn a molehill into a mountain.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by TheNorm

I was referring to the media trying to turn a molehill into a mountain.

Then it might be more helpful for you to make that point to them....

[TheNorm]

Originally Posted by Osem

Then it might be more helpful for you to make that point to them....

There might be a few journalists in the Cable Forum membership. Stranger things have happened...

[Osem]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3279621.ece

I wonder what they might have to hide??

Arent all mp's thieving liars

[Osem]

Stephen Pound MP has been banging on again about how well scrutinised our MP's are, well if that's true why is it that these issues have taken so long to surface?

He points out that it's tough being an MP (my heart bleeds) and the public can always vote them out if/when they do wrong. Given that could be up to 5 years distant, though, it's hardly the most immediate of sanctions is it? Furthermore for all those who vote on party lines, it's really no sanction since amongst other things the alternative of voting for another party would likely be unthinkable.

Originally Posted by TheNorm

Just before going to bed last night, I spent half an hour reading through the report from the Standards and Privileges Committee (http://www.publications.parliament.u.../280/28002.htm)

The main findings were:

They suggested he repay the money, and face a 10 day suspension.

He broke a rule, was found out, and was punished. OK, now can we move on?

So the Standards and Privileges Committee suggested (suggested!) he repay up to £13,161 of the £43,000 in salary and bonuses he gave to his younger son and that he be suspended from Parliament for ten days, and you think he's been punished?! If I'd misused my employer's money like that, I think I might have been treated rather differently. And allowing him to stay on until the next election, claiming salary and expenses, is more like a pat on the back.

There are more important things going on in politics, so I think we should move on, but please don't try to play down what he did. Drawing comparisons between how the Labour party and the Tories handle unworthy MPs is to close to comparing rotten and rancid.

[TheNorm]

Originally Posted by freezin

So the Standards and Privileges Committee suggested (suggested!) ...

Yes, and the House voted to uphold the suggestion. That's the way it works, apparently.

... you think he's been punished?! ...

As I've been saying all along, if the S&P Committee spent more time on tightening the rules (and making them more explicit), there would be no need for this "after the fact" punishment.

...If I'd misused my employer's money like that, I think I might have been treated rather differently. ..

Well, it all depends on your employer's written rules, doesn't it!

...And allowing him to stay on until the next election, claiming salary and expenses, is more like a pat on the back. ...

He still has a job to do, and he does it well, from what I've heard.

...There are more important things going on in politics, so I think we should move on, but please don't try to play down what he did. ....

I don't mean to play it down, but I do think this the checks and balances have been applied. Why should this man be punished further because the media chose to make a story about it?

Originally Posted by TheNorm

Yes, and the House voted to uphold the suggestion. That's the way it works, apparently.

So it does.

As I've been saying all along, if the S&P Committee spent more time on tightening the rules (and making them more explicit), there would be no need for this "after the fact" punishment.

And if MPs behaved like the honourable people they are meant to be (after all we must trust them to govern us) there would be no need to tighten the rules. If they are not to be trusted with getting their expenses right, why should the electorate trust them with anything else?

Well, it all depends on your employer's written rules, doesn't it!

I can't imagine many employers who would put up this kind of stuff. What do you think would have happened to a council employee who acted in this way? Conway's sons received £82,000 of public money for doing nothing. That's more than some people earn in a decade.

He still has a job to do, and he does it well, from what I've heard.

Meaning he's a Tory and therefore must be doing a good job? Or if it's not that, in what way does he do his job well?

I don't mean to play it down, but I do think this the checks and balances have been applied. Why should this man be punished further because the media chose to make a story about it?

I still think this is a more serious issue than you suggest. Most MPs are not thieves, but the media should make a story every time an MP is caught with his hands in the till (and it should not detract from other issues they need to cover). In any other walk of life it's called theft and might well gain someone a criminal record, barring them from many positions of trust. But MPs are special, they don't commit theft, they make 'mistakes'!

[Xaccers]

Freezin, company execs waste millions each year, just look at NTL, and do you think they get punished with their massive bonuses and pensions?
No, in the real world of course they don't get punished.
It doesn't appear he's actually broken any rules as there weren't any written, but the comittee disagreed with how he used the money, so are making him pay it back and suspended him for 10 days.

Compare that with Hain, or those involved with other dodgy funding schemes of the government.

[jkat]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Freezin, company execs waste millions each year, just look at NTL, and do you think they get punished with their massive bonuses and pensions?
No, in the real world of course they don't get punished.
It doesn't appear he's actually broken any rules as there weren't any written, but the comittee disagreed with how he used the money, so are making him pay it back and suspended him for 10 days.

Compare that with Hain, or those involved with other dodgy funding schemes of the government.

so u would vote for him then xac? its ok if he says "btw i'm paying my family out of your taxes for doing nothing because there are no rules, would u like me to put u on the payroll as well if u dont say anythin?" (hypothetically of course)