Seventy two year old man stopped from buying alcohol

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by danielf

That's what I thought (again) after reading the second story that was linked to. In a way that makes it even sillier. It looks like they are just trying to cover their own back, as you must have been lying if it turns out you are not over 21.

I'd be surprised if it got them out of a conviction though.

[TheDaddy]

I've just come back from the shop over the road, a large group of lads were in there buying beer, they bought child travel cards whilst they were there as well, the assistant didn't even realise

[Jules]

Pity I don't drink cause I want to be asked my age.......on second thoughts forget that cause I would be upset if they didn't now lol

Well I never get asked at my local Morrisons..Maybe the fact I've taught a few of them is a deterrent.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by cookie_365

Policy or no policy - what kind of person doesn't recognise this as a rule just screaming 'break me'

Possibly someone who wants to keep their job

They do seem to be serious in enforcing that policy in my local stores, so they may be serious over any disciplinary action...

I wonder why the management have taken such a stance...imagine the trouble in a pub if the barmen had to do the same...

[lostandconfused]

slightly off topic, but i was in tesco last week, and some arsy assistant refused to serve me a bladeless razor unless i showed some ID.
What did she think i was going to do with a blunt bit of plastic? melt it and sniff the fumes?

I worked for Morrisons for a few months recently. I feel really sorry for the checkout assistants. Selling alcohol to the underage is taken very seriously by councils, by supermarkets, and by staff. Councils send in undercover operators to check. If an assistant is found selling alcohol to minors, the assistant can be fined up to £2,000, and the store can lose its licence if a repeat offender.

Training videos are circulated to staff showing an interview of an assistant who really did sell alcohol in good faith to an underage girl thinking that she did look over 21. I don't blame assistants for asking politely in refusing to take risks. On a check out assistant's wages, a fine like that is just not worth the risk. If that offends a customer, I'm sorry but imo, that's tough!

A hardware shop in the same town as the Morrisons I worked at was visited by an undercover council inspector who watched a boy buy a craft knife. The shop owner received a fine that equalled more than his weeks takings. The poor innocent fool that served the kid thought that the inspector was his father!

[Skatoony]

Seriously, what on Earth? He looks clearly over 21. Did the person on the checkout have incorrect glasses, was colour blind or something?

[ZrByte]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

most big shops display signs saying if your under21 you will be asked for i/d shurly this is discrimination ,the law says 18 for alchohol and 16 for cigs, no mention of 21, theres no wonder young people fell peed off

Not really discrimination since if said person can prove they are 18 then they can still purchase what they wanted. They will just be asked if they look under 21.

What happened in this store is clearly a bit OTT but I have to admit that if the store I used to work in had introduced this as policy I would have done the same. I work just a couple of miles away from the west kirby store where this happened and about 2 years ago I was caught out by a plain clothes police officer and an underage girl. I was fined £80 and because I had violated company policy by not checking her age anyway the company refused to support me financially (This was before challenge 21 policy existed). Luckily for me there was a collection done around the store and they collected the whole £80 for me.

In my opinion the checkout operator was following company policy, it was the attitude of the customer that caused the problem, he was asked to confirm he was over 21, all he had to do was to say yes?

Instead it becomes an out of proportion (imo) story in the national press.

My son's ex girlfriend was fined £80 by her employer for selling alcohol to an under 18 customer, no sympathy implied, but it shows that the onus is on the employee to get it right - in the reported story the customer was guilty of failing to take that into account, in my opinion.

Even though, at face value, it is 'bureaucracy gone mad' , it is being done for a very good reason - too many under age drinkers, so I, personally, welcome any measures taken to reduce that

I'm a bit confused by all this. If the check-out assistant asks a person if they are over 21 and they say "yes", does that clear the assistant of all responsibility? If not, then why ask?

Surely the check-out staff still have to make a judgement as to whether the person looks over 18/21. If they think they look under age (and the customer cannot provide ID) then they will not serve them even if they say they are over 21. If they think they look over 21 they will simply ask them, and if they say "yes" they will be served.

Also a verbal "yes" or "no" means nothing. It can always be disputed later, so again, why ask if it cannot be proved or disproved (unless all conversations are recorded).

[papa smurf]

went to tesco yesterday ,got a few bits n bobs ,and a bottle of red, went thru the quick pay thingy [no till person] just about to pay when a young lady appears and asks sorry sir are you over21,i replied im twice your age love she smiled and said thats ok then, i havent been asked how old i am for over 30 years, are therse people sane

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

went to tesco yesterday ,got a few bits n bobs ,and a bottle of red, went thru the quick pay thingy [no till person] just about to pay when a young lady appears and asks sorry sir are you over21,i replied im twice your age love she smiled and said thats ok then, i havent been asked how old i am for over 30 years, are therse people sane

And yet

Originally Posted by TheDaddy
I've just come back from the shop over the road, a large group of lads were in there buying beer, they bought child travel cards whilst they were there as well, the assistant didn't even realise

It's almost as if some people are both blind and brain dead

According to USDAW the law states, to avoid prosecution, the seller has to 'take all reasonable steps' to avoid serving under age customers:

• If in any doubt, ask the age of the purchaser.

• If you are still even slightly unsure, ask for proof of age.

• If there is no valid ID, refuse the sale.

If the seller is charged with making an under-age sale, but can prove that they took these reasonable steps, they will escape prosecution.

If I had been working on a checkout (which has to be a really mind numbing job) I might well have wanted to get into the habit of wanting every customer buying alcohol to confirm that they were legally able to make the purchase. And checkout assistants are constantly reminded of the need to be vigilant by managers.

That's the climate that has been created in Britain with undercover enforcement officers.

Originally Posted by freezin

According to USDAW the law states, to avoid prosecution, the seller has to 'take all reasonable steps' to avoid serving under age customers:

• If in any doubt, ask the age of the purchaser.

• If you are still even slightly unsure, ask for proof of age.

• If there is no valid ID, refuse the sale.

If the seller is charged with making an under-age sale, but can prove that they took these reasonable steps, they will escape prosecution.

If I had been working on a checkout (which has to be a really mind numbing job) I might well have wanted to get into the habit of wanting every customer buying alcohol to confirm that they were legally able to make the purchase. And checkout assistants are constantly reminded of the need to be vigilant by managers.

That's the climate that has been created in Britain with undercover enforcement officers.

No it's that we are developing the mindset of corporate lawyers.