Making a CPU duct to draw outside air onto CPU!

[Web-Junkie]

Really? oh good, thought i'd done something wrong!

System temp seems fine with the 120mm fan blowing in through the front and 2 x 80mm fans exhausting at rear, disconnected the 2 side fans! Just spent an hour on GTA: San Andreas and Sensor 2 is showing 30°c for system temp and 45°C for CPU so it's better than the duct I made (with stock cooler mind!) as I was getting about 43°C idle with that!

Cheers Zing, Alien and Keith and other contributors for all the help and advice, can we really put this thread to bed now?

[Alien]

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

Well I'm in a small room and have a 17" CRT that kicks out a lot of heat, this room DOES get warm quickly if I have the door closed and the curtains drawn at night, even with the window open.

Must be really small for a 17" CRT to heat it up quickly!

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

I don't think It's wise to try and trap the sensor between heatsink and cpu though!

LOL, true. Before on-chip sensors became common, I recall reading a number of accounts of either milling a groove in the base of the heatsink, or more commonly drilling a hole in the side of the base of the heatsink that runs parallel to the bottom & as close as possible to it, then put thermal probe & a dollop of thermal paste in the hole.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

Vcore is showing 1.33v, so that's right!

Cool.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

Already installed the Dual Core Optimizer and enabled Cool n Quiet, although the Processor driver is showing 1.3.2.0 and there is a 1.3.2.16, so installed that but it's still showing the same version in device manager after a reboot?

My processor driver shows the same version [only had the default MS 1 installed before].

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

One thing I have done is use the EPP of the RAM to set it to performance in BIOS, this changes the timings to 4-4-4-12 and increases the DDR voltage from 1.8v to 2.38v and DIMM VTT from 0.9v to 1.18v according to PC Probe and Everest. although I can't explain why it's showing CPU Hypertransport at 1.39v when it should be 1.20v, not overclocked the CPU unless it's tied in with the SLI memory? Those are the only 3 voltages showing RED in PC Probe.

I was going to play around with my RAM settings to get the timings I paid for, but my graphics card &/or monitors have done that thing again where they remain blank between re-booting & Windows login screen, which means if I want to get into the BIOS again I've got to power off & take the graphics card out & put it back in again. [can't be bothered at the moment]

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

Installed the Power Monitor, why does everything need a sodding reboot ,

LOL, anything that works in a driver-ish sort of way usually does with Windows.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

but just shows the power as 1 red bar on the graph for each core!

My understanding of that is that it would [in theory] go up from red to yellow to green the longer you leave your system on & the more it's idle.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

I turn all power saving options off in XP, always have and Vcore is showing 1.3v so that ties with PC Probe and Everest.

Well, hopefully that should mean your mobo isn't trying to fry your chip.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

Installed Dashboard too, jeeeesus another sodding reboot , but I think it's broke, CPU is showing 40°C no matter what I do and the fan speed is always showing MIN!!

I couldn't get Dashboard to load. I just get an error message.

Failed initializing, make sure the AMDTools Driver is installed and that this system has a PSS or PST object.

Hmm... having googled, apparently it's because I have Cool'n'Quiet disabled in the BIOS. I remember leaving it disabled, & that I had a reason... I just can't remember what the reason was!

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

AF64 arrived this morning!

First problem was the clamping lever was on the wrong side, it looked like it would interfere with the fins on the mobo heatpipe and be awkward to get at when in place. Unscrewed the retention assembly and re-assembled it 180° now the lever is the correct side, fan is still pointing to the front of the case!

That's as it should be, fan pointing to front of case, airflow going towards rear exhaust fan[s].

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

Second problem is the base of the heatsink is dog rough and concave! Scraped all the gunk off and used the edge of a SKY card to see if it was flat, in one direction it's concave and 90° to it it's nearly flat, but the finish is very rough! So either I leave it at that and hope it's OK or try to lap it flat and get a better finish, should I lap it? More damn work

Mine isn't concave, but I have to say after looking at it again it's definitely the roughest heatsink base I've ever seen. I'm not looking forward to lapping it either. It's probably going to have to wait a while anyway, as I think I had to chuck my decent/fine sandpaper out a while ago [it suffered an unpleasant fate ]. I'll have to see what I've got left, otherwise it's going to have to wait until after next weekend, as I've only got just enough money for food until then.

Originally Posted by keithwalton

I'm surprised the AF64's surface was so rough, perhaps they are cutting corners these days

None of the review pictures looked anywhere near as bad, I wonder why.

Originally Posted by keithwalton

Edit - Having checked wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athlon) There was the palomino in between the thunderbird and the thoroughbred, the palomino was the first 'Athlon XP' and raised the clockspeed compared to the tbird (b/c) and was made at 180nm.

Yeah, my 1900 was a Palamino.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

Aye, surface is very rough, you can see the milling marks on the block! In fact it looks like it's a piece from a surface roughness scratch guage

I had to look that up, as I didn't know what you meant, but yeah, having had a closer look I have to agree.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

Brother is up town and is going to see if he can get some wet or dry paper, between 400-2000 grit according to lapping guides I've read, we'll see what abortion I can make of this, better put your tin hats on this could get messy!

sorted.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

One problem I had with the lapping was the copper bottom kept vibrating on the glass/sand paper if I pressed on too hard? Tried immersing fully in water while lapping and by just wetting the sand paper and gently rubbing back and forth, still vibrated if I pressed too hard! But, managed to get a decent finish in the end by not pressing too hard

IIRC, you're supposed to move it in small circles, not just back & forth. And yeah, it is supposed to be done fairly gently.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

Fitting the AF64 was tricky, the retention clip is so damn stiff even with one side clipped onto the lugs you really have to press down on the other clip to get it to mate plus it was extremely hard to flip the clamping lever and you could feel the force it was exerting when it clamped home. The lever was actually pulled sideways a bit the strain was so great!

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

Used the OCZ Ultra 5+ paste, spread it over the CPU but the block of the AF64 does not cover the whole of the CPU, rather it fits flush on 2 adjacent edges of the CPU and the other two edges have a 1 - 1.5mm gap exposing the CPU and paste!

I remember seeing that mentioned in a review. The important part is that it more than covers the area where the core is [in the middle]. On the plus side, as you've discovered, it makes sticking an exernal thermal probe on a bit easier. I used to have 1 of the probes for my DigiDoc 5 pressed up against the side of the core of my XP3200, & getting it to stay there, up against the not-very-tall side of the core wasn't easy [even with the supplied bit of sticky tape].

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

CPU: 36°C
CPU Fan: 2300rpm
Mobo: 31°C
Sensor 1 - CPU: 36°C
Sensor 2 - case temp: 28°C

The onboard mobo sensor is probably somewhere warm, which would explain the difference in mobo & case temps.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

Ran Othos in 'Blend - stress CPU and RAM' mode for 10 minutes and noted PC Probe readings:

CPU: 53°C
CPU Fan: 2300rpm
Mobo: 33°C
Sensor 1 - CPU: 47°C
Sensor 2 - case temp: 30°C

CPU still looks high! Turned off the only overclocking feature enabled in the BIOS, SLI Memory, and re-ran Othos for 10 mins and no change on temps! Either this CPU runs hot or I suck at fitting heatsinks, I think I know which one people will opt for!

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

53 on orthos is fine imo much better temps

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img] It's certainly an improvement over the temps you were getting.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

System temp seems fine with the 120mm fan blowing in through the front and 2 x 80mm fans exhausting at rear, disconnected the 2 side fans! Just spent an hour on GTA: San Andreas and Sensor 2 is showing 30°c for system temp and 45°C for CPU so it's better than the duct I made (with stock cooler mind!) as I was getting about 43°C idle with that!

Much better.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

Cheers Zing, Alien and Keith and other contributors for all the help and advice, can we really put this thread to bed now?

Awww, I was enjoying this thread. <pout>

[Web-Junkie]

As Vic or Bob would say:

You wouldn't let it lie!!

[Alien]

I've never really been into Vic & Bob, but I get the gist of the reference.

[Web-Junkie]

Shooting Stars was brill, "What are the scores, George doors"

Ah Hum, anyway, box still running fine, CPU idling at 39°C as it's a bit warm today, ambient temp 30°C

My room is VERY small, about 8 feet square! No wonder it heats up so quickly.

As for the lapping, the guide I read just said move the block in on direction until it's removed most of the roughness then turn it 90° and use the next grit down and so on and so forth until you have a smooth mirror finish. Never got a mirror finish, but did have a smoother flatter block which seems OK, and I can't spell GAUGE either it appears

The only problem I can see with the AF64 so far is the fan is nearly touching the back of the DVD drive cables and the HDD bay underneath. Thought about using a bit of card to deflect some air from the 120mm fan into the AF64's fan, but that idea is in embryo, not in a mad rush to try that!

sounds like you got a tiny case mate sometimes size does matter lol

[Web-Junkie]

LOL, the case is about 16.5" long, 16.5" high and 9" wide! Looks a bit compact inside but there is plenty clear air space under the HDD bay and where the mobo sits, so that 120mm fan has a clear air path into the case.

Just rung my mate and asked him to bring his digital camera up so I can take a few piccies so you can see what the case is like and the duct I made! Should be a laugh!

[Alien]

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

Ah Hum, anyway, box still running fine, CPU idling at 39°C as it's a bit warm today, ambient temp 30°C

Nice.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

My room is VERY small, about 8 feet square! No wonder it heats up so quickly.

When you say 8 feet square, do you mean 8x8, or 4x2 [or 3.5x2.28-ish, etc]?

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

The only problem I can see with the AF64 so far is the fan is nearly touching the back of the DVD drive cables and the HDD bay underneath. Thought about using a bit of card to deflect some air from the 120mm fan into the AF64's fan, but that idea is in embryo, not in a mad rush to try that!

Hmm... I think I'll have to wait for the pics before forming an opinion on that 1.

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

sounds like you got a tiny case mate sometimes size does matter lol

Yeah, his sounds more like a mini-ATX than a mid-ATX.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

LOL, the case is about 16.5" long, 16.5" high and 9" wide!

Dude, last time you measured it it was 17" long & 17" high. Hmm... small warm room, shrinking case... you sure the Mrs hasn't tricked you into using the airing cupboard?

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

Just rung my mate and asked him to bring his digital camera up so I can take a few piccies so you can see what the case is like and the duct I made! Should be a laugh!

Cool, look forward to seeing this PC I've been trying to imagine.

[AndrewJ]

I await these images with interest,

[Web-Junkie]

OK here's the piccies:

Cobbled together duct. Red arrow pointing in is the intake from the 80mm fan at rear of case, duct slid over it and taped down. The other arrow shows the 70mm duct that slid over the CPU fan drawing the air onto the heatsink from the air the 80mm fan was blowing in! Don't laught it did work, better than I thought


Now for the Songcheer extra wide case. Measures 9" wide x 16.5" long x 16.5 " high!! It's a short fat b'stard init!! What do you me it's like me then


Front of case showing drilled air holes, note the 3 extra holes, oops! got carried away, shouldn't have watched Driller Killer earlier


Inside showing air filter, just used some masking tape at right angles to hold it in place. Note the snapped off lug bottom left EE I'm a clumsy tw@!!


Here's the hacked out hole for the 120mm fan, B'stard of a job that was :


Inside of case showing 120mm fan on the right, Arctic Cooler choking on the cables but the hot air is blowing towards the rear case fans! You can also just see the 120mm fan I strapped to the Graphics Card! There is plenty of air space in the case, particularly at the bottom and across the GFX card and slots! You can see the case temp sensor dangling in the middle too!


Broken phone bracket, red circled areas are the lugs that I broke Should be like the ones directly below them!


So, that's basically what I've been rabbiting about for the last 7 pages

[keithwalton]

The duct would of worked ok if you attached that to the bottom of the two rear fans and then had the top fan sucking that air straight back out again.

What have you got in the top 5 1/2" bay ? can you not bump the other drives up.

Do you ever use the floppy drive ? might be worth removing it if its not used that much.

From the stickers on the front i see the case has done you well, what with the original pentium sticker on there (pre mmx!) perhaps a new case is in order they are still cheap these days for a real basic one.

As for your graphics card, is that a heat piped passive cooler on it ? if so you would be much better off cooling the heat exchanger on the back than the front of the card like that.

Edit - £11 ... http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/108279 also avaliable in black, has space for a fan on the side panel though i think it will be to far back for your mobo. It has lots of hard drive slots which you seem to need ..
For a few extra squid you can get frills like front usb ports. Its only 39cm long tho! They do a 44.5cm long one which will give you more room. They do have alot of colours styles etc all for around the £20 mark.

However this is the case to die for, i still havent worked out how your supposed to get at your rom drives but still ... it will solve all your thermal problems! http://www.thermaltake.com/product/C.../vd4000swa.asp Its only £180 but includes a full water cooling system. Its alu so the case itself is light, however the whole lot would be heavy due to the litre or so of water required.

[Web-Junkie]

All three of the 5.25" bays are full, bottom two have DVD drives and top one has a 3.5" HDD bolted to a set of 3.5" to 5.25" brackets.

I use the floppy, especially for memtest, bootdisk, HDD diagnostics and BIOS flashing so won't remove it.

Case was bought when the Pentium III 450Mhz came out, the one you slotted in!

Funnily GFX temps have gone DOWN since strapping the fan to the heatsink? Maybe now I've got better airflow has helped too!

£11 for a case, summat wrong with them? A mate has the Kandalf case, the one with the huge 25cm fan in it! If the one you've linked is like the one he has then there are 2 doors you have to swing open to get at the 5.25" bays, you open one door and then the other as the first door hides the second door underneath! One problem with that is the doors are heavy and tend to swing back to the closed position. If you eject a DVD by mistake the tray jams on the door as it can't push the door open!!

Think I'll keep this case for now, nothing is going seriousy high temps in it and £180 is like £180 more than I want to spend at the moment!

[Alien]

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

Cobbled together duct. Red arrow pointing in is the intake from the 80mm fan at rear of case, duct slid over it and taped down. The other arrow shows the 70mm duct that slid over the CPU fan drawing the air onto the heatsink from the air the 80mm fan was blowing in!

The AMD fan's only 70mm? [instead of 80] Hmm... my YS Tech TMD fan is 70mm [well, the screw holes are the same as for a 70mm, but it's a bit wider at the sides]. I wonder what my temps would be like if I put that on my AMD h/s.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

Now for the Songcheer extra wide case. Measures 9" wide x 16.5" long x 16.5 " high!! It's a short fat b'stard init!!

Short in length, but long in the tooth.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

Front of case showing drilled air holes, note the 3 extra holes, oops! got carried away, shouldn't have watched Driller Killer earlier

I've made that mistake before as well. [extra holes, not the film]

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

Inside showing air filter, just used some masking tape at right angles to hold it in place.

That stuff looks a bit dense, does it actually let enough air through?

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

Here's the hacked out hole for the 120mm fan, B'stard of a job that was

So when are you going to tidy up those edges?

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

Inside of case showing 120mm fan on the right, Arctic Cooler choking on the cables but the hot air is blowing towards the rear case fans!

I thought you were exagerating!

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

There is plenty of air space in the case, particularly at the bottom and across the GFX card and slots!

I'm not sure I'd call that plenty. Here's a pic of mine:

Admittedly that's my old Abit AN7 in there, not my current Asrock AM2NF3-VSTA, but the CPU is still in roughly the same position. Also, I have a slightly longer graphics card in now [X800 GTO] than I did in that pic [9600 Pro], but other than that it's pretty much the same.

Originally Posted by keithwalton

perhaps a new case is in order they are still cheap these days for a real basic one.
<snip>

Edit - £11 ... http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/108279 also avaliable in black, has space for a fan on the side panel though i think it will be to far back for your mobo. It has lots of hard drive slots which you seem to need ..

The main prob with his current case is that it's too short, so you recommend 1 that's even shorter?

Originally Posted by keithwalton

For a few extra squid you can get frills like front usb ports. Its only 39cm long tho! They do a 44.5cm long one which will give you more room. They do have alot of colours styles etc all for around the £20 mark.

44.5cm is roughly the same length as his current 1, what would be the point in getting it?

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

You can also just see the 120mm fan I strapped to the Graphics Card!

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

Funnily GFX temps have gone DOWN since strapping the fan to the heatsink? Maybe now I've got better airflow has helped too!

I think you'd get better airflow over your graphics card if you used something like this, as it would give airflow over both sides of the graphics card's heatsink.

As you're not afraid of going a bit "Heath Robinson" on your system, you could probably even make something like that yourself if you had a spare bit of metal lying around.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

£11 for a case, summat wrong with them?

Yes, it's shorter than your current 1.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

Think I'll keep this case for now, nothing is going seriousy high temps in it and £180 is like £180 more than I want to spend at the moment!

Just in case [no pun intended] you decide in the future that you'd like something a bit roomier without breaking the bank, this is the cheapest 1 that I'd consider a viable replacement. [manufacturer's page with more details & pics here]

[AndrewJ]

What you really should do mate is remove that front 120mm fan and fit a Delta 120mm fan on there. go on do it

[keithwalton]

I was joking with the £180 case, it contains a 360x120mm radiator in the front of it for water cooling, its really quite nice.

The case i linked him to had alot more drive bays in it, if the moved his rom drives upto the top two slots then they wouldnt get in the way of the cooler. a inlet cooler could then be put in the spare bays if required. There is lots of 3 1/4" bays in which the hard drives could be tucked out of the way rather than propped in.

Its so cheap because its simply a case, no psu, no fans, nothing else. I was mearly highlighting how cheap it would be to replace the case and i did link to one that is longer than his present one but also has all of the advantages of rom drive space that i just mentioned. That coolermaster tho is nice and still cheap too