Making a CPU duct to draw outside air onto CPU!

[Alien]

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

@Alien: Glad you didn't take offence at the last bit of my post

Wasn't offended, more concerned that I might have put you off modding computers, or p****d you off by making it sound easier than it had turned out to be. For future reference, I tend to lean more towards understatement than exageration.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

I gather that pic is the CPU AND SOCKET glued to the heatsink

Close, but not quite - look again. The lugs of the socket that the heatsink was latched onto turned out to be stronger than the bond/grip/whatever between the socket & the metal pin bits that were soldered into the motherboard. [plus I used Arctic Silver, not the original chewing gum that Cooler Master put on it] That's 1 of the reasons why you couldn't pay me enough to use an ECS [aka Elitegroup] motherboard. It's not like the heatsink was heavy either, just a cheap aluminium Cooler Master jobby [good enough for an XP2000 that wasn't going to be overclocked, plus they wouldn't cough up for a decent 1]. Also, if I ever build a system for someone I don't know really well again, & they ignore my recommendations for hardware [I recommended an Abit board, they insisted on the cheap ECS 1 because they couldn't afford the Abit], I'll just tell them to find someone else to build their computer for them.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

Hope I don't get a parcel of you anytime soon Was it Parcel Force that delivered it? Puts the FORCE part into perspective then if it was!!

LOL, no, Royal Mail "Special" Delivery.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

The 120mm fan indeed is the one that was hung under the HDD, it's now bolted to the chassis where I made the big hole I also drilled holes in the case front, it already had an ideal pattern of indents in it which made drillng so much easier, I now have an 11 x 11 grid of holes in a 12cm square. Stuck some tissue paper inside to stop dust again.

In all honesty, I think that tissue paper might be hindering airflow too much. Dust's only a problem if like me you can't be bothered to have to clear the dust out of it every month.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

The phone, I just taped the base station to the bracket using PTFE (Put The F***er Everywhere) tape, it'll do for now

Cool.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

Hmm.. A pair of tights! I can use a spare pair I have, err... they're for when I go fishing gov, honest!

Unless "fishing" is a euphamism I haven't heard before, I'm not sure that excuse works. As I said previously, I haven't tried them before, so don't know how they rate in terms of a balance between airflow & dust filtering.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

The fan noise is not as bad as before too, so somethings happened! Either too much turbulence before or the side ones aren't spinning, can't see for the tissue paper

Probably the reduced turbulance on the front intake fan.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

@Zing: They are only low RPM Silent ones in the side, didn't think they'd do much to upset the flow seeing as the rear fans are spinning much faster, that's if they are spinning as I mentioned above I can easily unplug them if they're not needed, or can flip them round to blow out, or have 1 blow in 1 blow out etc!!

Out of the various options you've listed the 1 in/1 out is the 1 I'd forget about straight away, if they're close together you'll just have the intake 1 taking back in the warm air the exhaust 1 has just removed. That's why people don't make the rear fan below the PSU an intake instead of an exhaust.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

Maybe use one of those smoke bombs my local plunber uses for testing the air draw of chimneys, stick in the front of the case and if I don't get much smoke coming out the rear of the case somethings up

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

yes do that and if the air is disturbed by the side fans or is not being drawn out correctly alter your cooling

The only thing that would bother me about that idea is what sort of residue the smoke might leave behind.

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

imo pic is ideal airflow

^^ what he said.

[keithwalton]

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

yes do that and if the air is disturbed by the side fans or is not being drawn out correctly alter your cooling

imo pic is ideal airflow

Well thats a standard approach to doing cooling, not sure i would call it ideal though. But its about the best you're going to get with ATX, BTX on the other hand was a much better idea its such a shame that its not really taking off as its much quieter and much more efficent way of doing air cooling.

Back to the amd chip thing somthing just doesnt smell right. Generally pre-release engineering samples and alike run slightly slower than what the manufacturer then ships as tweaks are made to the design which squeezes abit more performance out of them.
I dont really see the point of what they have done aside from a 'look at us we can make a 3GHz chip too'.

You would have to assume that there is somthing significantly wrong with it else they would be 'leaking' performance figures from the chip at just how much it thrashes an intel chip, or at least some kind of benchmark other than showing its off the scale on windows performance index.

When removing a heatsink its much better to try and slide it off than pull it off. As the thermal goop can as you have shown can stick on pretty well.
When you apply your own thermal grease and then move the heatsink around abit on the chip to squeeze out all the air bubbles you will find then that the sink becomes 'sucked' onto the chip and is difficult to pull off.


Edit - what i meant to say all along.
There has long been a debate over whether you should run your computer with slightly positive (more air in than out) or slightly negative pressure (more out than in)

A downside of negative pressure is that air is pulled in from other sources (poor shutlines on case etc) and you find dust creeps in everywhere. this does not happen if you have slightly positive pressure and as long as your inlet is well filtered you dont get a dust build up inside the case.

[Web-Junkie]

All good points/observations gentlemen

I could light a load of joss sticks and stuff them in front of the case, at least I'd see the smoke being sucked in and exhausted if air flow is correct, and it would smell a lot nicer and probably would not leave any residue

I also have a mate who used to work in a factory making air and oil filters so I can ask him to get some filter material for me. In fact he went down there the other week to get some filter material for the 25cm fan on the side of his Kandalf case, yes I did say 25cm! It's bloody huge, but it blows into the case and so he's put the filter on the inside to stop the dust getting sucked in!

He's also got an external water cooler he no longer uses, a Thermaltake Aquarius III, but not sure if it will fit an AM2 socket but should I even consider it?

I also forget to mention the duct is no longer being used, thought it better to see if regreasing the CPU and getting better air flow would do more good! I'll see after a few hours of the system being on and a blast (literally) in GTA: San Andreas and some other games!

[Alien]

Originally Posted by keithwalton

Well thats a standard approach to doing cooling, not sure i would call it ideal though. But its about the best you're going to get with ATX, BTX on the other hand was a much better idea its such a shame that its not really taking off as its much quieter and much more efficent way of doing air cooling.

Considering BTX was created by Intel, & they cancelled further development of BTX retail products last September, & that they along with AMD & other component manufacturers are trying to focus on lower power consumption [& consequently heat output], I wouldn't get your hopes up about a BTX revival.

Originally Posted by keithwalton

Back to the amd chip thing somthing just doesnt smell right. Generally pre-release engineering samples and alike run slightly slower than what the manufacturer then ships as tweaks are made to the design which squeezes abit more performance out of them.
I dont really see the point of what they have done aside from a 'look at us we can make a 3GHz chip too'.

You would have to assume that there is somthing significantly wrong with it else they would be 'leaking' performance figures from the chip at just how much it thrashes an intel chip, or at least some kind of benchmark other than showing its off the scale on windows performance index.

If I had to guess, based on various things I've read, I'd say odds are they're having trouble with yields of cores that can hit 3Ghz. As you say, the 3Ghz may well be a "look we can do it too" act, with the idea being to keep people interested in the AMD brand, or perhaps even to win back some of the interest that Core2 has taken away from them.

Originally Posted by keithwalton

When removing a heatsink its much better to try and slide it off than pull it off. As the thermal goop can as you have shown can stick on pretty well.
When you apply your own thermal grease and then move the heatsink around abit on the chip to squeeze out all the air bubbles you will find then that the sink becomes 'sucked' onto the chip and is difficult to pull off.

I've never had trouble removing a heatsink that I've put on with Arctic Silver.

Originally Posted by keithwalton

Edit - what i meant to say all along.
There has long been a debate over whether you should run your computer with slightly positive (more air in than out) or slightly negative pressure (more out than in)

A downside of negative pressure is that air is pulled in from other sources (poor shutlines on case etc) and you find dust creeps in everywhere. this does not happen if you have slightly positive pressure and as long as your inlet is well filtered you dont get a dust build up inside the case.

My case actually does have a certain amount of negative pressure, which is why I have done my best to seal up any openings that aren't supposed to have air flowing through. It's not a perfect seal or anything, but I reckon it's definately made a difference, as my case doesn't get as dusty as my old 1 did before I sealed up the extra gaps.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

I could light a load of joss sticks and stuff them in front of the case, at least I'd see the smoke being sucked in and exhausted if air flow is correct, and it would smell a lot nicer and probably would not leave any residue

You'd need to light quite a few, as the smoke is quite thin, & disperses easily.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

I also have a mate who used to work in a factory making air and oil filters so I can ask him to get some filter material for me. In fact he went down there the other week to get some filter material for the 25cm fan on the side of his Kandalf case, yes I did say 25cm! It's bloody huge, but it blows into the case and so he's put the filter on the inside to stop the dust getting sucked in!

I must admit I was surprised when I 1st read that, that's the same size as the cone in my sub-woofer!

You can actually buy PC fan filters, which aren't too expensive. I may be recovering the 1 that came with my case soon, as I managed to poke a hole in it the last time I cleaned it. After a quick test with some net curtain I had left over from some bug screens I made to keep bugs out of my shed [stretched over a wooden frame, which was then screwed to the wall around the air vents], I might give that a go. The holes in it are smaller than the plastic mesh stuff on the existing filter, but it still allows air to flow through it ok.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

He's also got an external water cooler he no longer uses, a Thermaltake Aquarius III, but not sure if it will fit an AM2 socket but should I even consider it?

I'm not sure about AM2 compatability. Thermaltake's site [as well as several others] mention "K8", but the problem with that is that K8 includes sockets 754, 939, 940, AM2 [which I believe is physically a 940, but incompatible with s940 Opterons], & 1207 as well. As to whether you should consider it... It's up to you. I haven't read any reviews of it, as external liquid cooling doesn't interest me. It's 1 thing when you've got the whole system inside your case, but when it's external... I can just imagine accidentally knocking it off, & the problems/damage that would ensue. Considering the recent fate of your telephone's base station, you sound like you have the grace/co-ordination of... well... me! In which case an external liquid cooling setup wouldn't be high on my list of recommendations.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

I also forget to mention the duct is no longer being used, thought it better to see if regreasing the CPU and getting better air flow would do more good! I'll see after a few hours of the system being on and a blast (literally) in GTA: San Andreas and some other games!

I'll certainly be interested to hear the results.

All this when a decent CPU HSF would have done the job

[Web-Junkie]

But then I wouldn't have had the benefit of duct making, case modding and general advice/fun banter with people on this forum would I?

Some fun at parties you'd be

yeah but I get the job done dont pee around

[Web-Junkie]

If I could afford that Noctua or Thermalright Zing I may not have gone to all this trouble, no disrespect to the people who've given advice

even an artic freezer 64 would have done lol

[Web-Junkie]

OK, I'll try the AF 64 Pro!

LOL, scan are out of stock

Ebuyer to the rescue! £11.33 inc VAT! Read some of the customer reviews and while positive one noticeable comment from a few people was the metal retention clips put so much pressure on the CPU and socket that one person had it shear through the plastic lugs on the CPU socket Have you heard of this Zing? Also, they say the pre applied paste is overkill, so buy some AS5 and regrease it?

[Alien]

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

OK, I'll try the AF 64 Pro!

LOL, scan are out of stock

Ebuyer to the rescue! £11.33 inc VAT! Read some of the customer reviews and while positive one noticeable comment from a few people was the metal retention clips put so much pressure on the CPU and socket that one person had it shear through the plastic lugs on the CPU socket Have you heard of this Zing? Also, they say the pre applied paste is overkill, so buy some AS5 and regrease it?

I know you asked the zingly one, but I just had a look at mine again. If by overkill they mean that it's too thick, I'd have to agree. Not by a lot [we're not talking Voodoo3 GPU thermal adhesive thickness here], but certainly noticeably thicker than the amount of AS I'd put on.

As for the clip being too tight, if you're that concerned, you could just apply pressure gradually to the clip lever. As you've already done the stock AMD 1 you have an idea of how it should feel, so if it feels like it needs you to use significantly more then just abort the attempt & go back to the AMD 1.

BTW, you mentioned that your system was quieter, but you haven't told us how your temps are doing.

[Web-Junkie]

Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water, up pops an Alien

So you're happy with your AF64 then? As for my temps, it seems without the duct the temps have gone up, more so now I've regreased the CPU, think I hit 60°C and the fan was hitting 6000RPM, previous with stock cooler was 5600RPM and temps about 55-60°C and with duct CPU about 40-43°C and 4000RPM on the fan! Not sure the AS II my mate has is still useable, it's well over 4 years old prolly more! Not done anything different from greasing previous CPU's, have done about 25-30 or so for me and friends and not had a CPU pop yet! Maybe his ASII is past it's use by date?

I'll order the AF cooler and see what happens then! Should I buy some OCZ 5+ paste as Ebuyer sells that, might as well get both from same place and regrease the AF64, or just use the gunk that comes on it?

[Alien]

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water, up pops an Alien

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

So you're happy with your AF64 then?

I haven't actually tried it yet, I just said I had a look to see how thick the pre-applied goo is.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

As for my temps, it seems without the duct the temps have gone up, more so now I've regreased the CPU, think I hit 60°C and the fan was hitting 6000RPM, previous with stock cooler was 5600RPM and temps about 55-60°C and with duct CPU about 40-43°C and 4000RPM on the fan!

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img] That doesn't sound right. I can't think why your temps would have gone up.

Waitasec... 6000rpm? Are we still talking about the stock AMD cooler, same as I posted a pic of previously? I set Orthos running to warm up my CPU, to see how fast the fan would go. It's been going for over 20mins now, cores are fluctuating around the 53-58°C mark, & the highest the fan's gone is about 3600rpm.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

Not sure the AS II my mate has is still useable, it's well over 4 years old prolly more! Not done anything different from greasing previous CPU's, have done about 25-30 or so for me and friends and not had a CPU pop yet! Maybe his ASII is past it's use by date?

Unlikely, considering I've had mine at least as long, if not longer.

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

I'll order the AF cooler and see what happens then!

Do you want me to try mine 1st? I wasn't planning on putting it in yet, but if you're in a rush to get lower temps I suppose I could.

Just a thought, are you using the optional cooling fan that comes with the Crosshair, & if so, is there any chance you might have mixed up which sockets it & the CPU fan plug into? I don't know what speed that fan's rated for, but that might explain the higher speed.

[keithwalton]

Regarding the water cooler, have amd changed the retention method for the heatsink between the different A64 sockets ? IE would a 754/939 air cooler work with AM2 ? I have some recolection that they did tweak things abit which meant all good 939 coolers were just with AM2. At worst case all you would need is a new waterblock, however if its anything like my thermaltake waterblock you strip off the standard air cooler mountings and put in there own including back plate, so i suspect it would work fine

[Web-Junkie]

@Alien: No need to fit your cooler, I'll order one and if it works, it works, if it doesn't it hasn't broke the bank! The CPU fan is the stock AMD one. It's controlled by the mobo via PWM (4 pin CPU fan connector) and according to PC Probe it was spinning at 6000RPM, temp up around 60°C! Not sure whats gone wrong unless the clip has come loose on the heatsink. The additional fan in the Crosshair box is not connected, it's only used when passive cooling like a watercooler is used, not when air cooling is used so the stock cooler is plugged into the CPU fan connector.

At least the system is stable! It's not resetting, freezing or BSOD'ing, YET!!

@keith: I rung my mate about his watercooler but he's selling it to one of the guys he works with as he reminded me I said I didn't want it As for the AM2 compatability, not sure! The board I put this water cooler in was a socket 940 and we had to remove the black bracket around the CPU and then put 4 bolts through the back of the mobo and backplate and then put a 'H' bracket over the bolts and slide it onto the water block then screw it down. It may work on an AM2, but won't know now he's selling it!