Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops - Page 14

danielf · 06-07-2007, 13:57

No prizes for guessing my opinion

**Chris** · 06-07-2007, 13:58

I said earlier in this thread that the Bible establishes very early on that God uses large-scale calamities as judgement on nations and cultures. Whether that's the case here, time will tell. I don't know this bishop's ministry so I can't say if he's a trustworthy man of God whose teaching I ought to sit up and listen to. I don't know if he's a prophet.

What I do know is, this society has drifted a long way from the pattern of life and faith that God calls for, and if God is moving in judgement against that, he will also be moving to bring us back to him.

Time will tell.

I am quite sure I'm going to be accused of hedging or obfuscation, but frankly, I'm prepared to live with that. This is what I think on the issue.

Ramrod · 06-07-2007, 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris T

What I do know is, this society has drifted a long way from the pattern of life and faith that God calls for

.....and thats probably a good thing....I suspect that you have 'drifted' a little as well

btw, I, of course, think the bish is out of his tree. Belongs in the middle ages

Saaf_laandon_mo · 06-07-2007, 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gareth

So, has everyone had enough time to ponder whether they agree or disagree with the comments made by the church? Show of hands, anyone...?

Have they said something else or are we still talking about the Bishop?

Gareth · 06-07-2007, 14:28

It's not just the bishop, though, is it? If it was just a case of one bishop sounding off, then I don't think as many people would have been quite as offended - it would be easy to dismiss him as just being a crackpot, to bash the bishop so to speak.

However, the article in the Telegraph says that it's not just the ramblings of one lonesome bishop. Even the title, "Floods are judgment on society, say bishops" (emphasis added by myself) shows we're talking about more than one bishop. There are several bishops referred to in the article, which suggests to me that this is a unified view being expressed, i.e. that of the church.

ntluser · 06-07-2007, 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramrod

The middle ages are now a state of mind

No, the middle ages are the time when the broad mind and the narrow waist change places.

06-07-2007, 21:59

Well the bishop is a nutjob simple as if he really believe's that. Anyone that supports his views might also want to seek immediate psychiatrict help as well. Too much rain and building on flood plains are the reason nothing devine for the problem.

c_r · 06-07-2007, 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris T

I said earlier in this thread that the Bible establishes very early on that God uses large-scale calamities as judgement on nations and cultures. Whether that's the case here, time will tell. I don't know this bishop's ministry so I can't say if he's a trustworthy man of God whose teaching I ought to sit up and listen to. I don't know if he's a prophet.

Surely you utterly condemn this bishop's assertion that pro-gay laws have caused God to invoke his wrath though?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris T

What I do know is, this society has drifted a long way from the pattern of life and faith that God calls for, and if God is moving in judgement against that, he will also be moving to bring us back to him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris T

I would think anybody who believed themselves qualified to comment on God's thoughts to be somewhat deluded, and possibly arrogant, maybe even a little unhinged.

Hmmm...

**Chris** · 06-07-2007, 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by c_r

Surely you utterly condemn this bishop's assertion that pro-gay laws have caused God to invoke his wrath though?

Sorry, I make a habit of trying not to answer loaded questions. I've said all I'm going to say on the subject, and I think that's plenty for you to work out for yourself what I believe. You could always go and search the forum for my posts on religious subjects in other threads if you like though, there are rather a lot of them.

That is, if you're genuinely interested in an exchange of views as opposed to word games.

Quote:

Hmmm...

If you're going to try to make someone look like they are contradicting themselves, it's normally considered polite to have due regard for context ... and, for that matter, whether the two quotes you pick out of are even talking about the same thing.

Incidentally, I've done a Coggy and unsubscribed from this thread.

c_r · 06-07-2007, 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris T

Sorry, I make a habit of trying not to answer loaded questions. I've said all I'm going to say on the subject, and I think that's plenty for you to work out for yourself what I believe. You could always go and search the forum for my posts on religious subjects in other threads if you like though, there are rather a lot of them.

That is, if you're genuinely interested in an exchange of views as opposed to word games.

Hey, fair enough, that's your prerogative. You don't have to answer anything you don't want to. I'm a bit puzzled as to why you won't though. If you disagree with homosexual sex at least have the courage of your convictions and come out and say so. If I'm reading your reluctance to reply incorrectly then I apologise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris T

If you're going to try to make someone look like they are contradicting themselves, it's normally considered polite to have due regard for context ... and, for that matter, whether the two quotes you pick out of are even talking about the same thing.

I'm sorry, how were those two quotes out of context? How about these two then?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris T

God's standard for spending your afterlife as a guest in his house is extremely high - in fact, if it had a pass rate, it would be 100%.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris T

I would think anybody who believed themselves qualified to comment on God's thoughts to be somewhat deluded, and possibly arrogant, maybe even a little unhinged.

Russ · 06-07-2007, 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by c_r

Hey, fair enough, that's your prerogative. You don't have to answer anything you don't want to. I'm a bit puzzled as to why you won't though. If you disagree with homosexual sex at least have the courage of your convictions and come out and say so. If I'm reading your reluctance to reply incorrectly then I apologise.

Chris doesn't have to give his opinion here seeing as he (and I) have done it countless times here in the past and neither of use feel like going over old ground.

Quote:

Originally Posted by c_r

I'm sorry, how were those two quotes out of context? How about these two then?

What's wrong with them? One is clearly stated in the Bible, the other is Chris' opinion.

c_r · 06-07-2007, 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

Chris doesn't have to give his opinion here seeing as he (and I) have done it countless times here in the past and neither of use feel like going over old ground.

Of course he doesn't have to give his opinion. However, as this is a public message board, I'm entitled to ask for it. How about you, are you prepared to give an answer?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

What's wrong with them? One is clearly stated in the Bible, the other is Chris' opinion.

I'm not 100% sure which is which to be honest. I assume this first quote (now in it's entirety) is the one you say is clearly stated in the bible?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris T

God's standard for spending your afterlife as a guest in his house is extremely high - in fact, if it had a pass rate, it would be 100%. Nobody qualifies on their own merit, no matter how much tax they pay or how many grannies they help across the road. Even being a married heterosexual with two kids and a mortgage doesn't make you qualify. There is no point trying to make yourself good enough by doing good things, because you can't possibly do it well enough to satisfy the standards of an utterly perfect, spotless being such as God.

It certainly sounds like his opinion to me.

Russ · 06-07-2007, 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by c_r

Of course he doesn't have to give his opinion. However, as this is a public message board, I'm entitled to ask for it. How about you, are you prepared to give an answer?

Depends on the question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by c_r

I'm not 100% sure which is which to be honest. I assume this first quote (now in it's entirety) is the one you say is clearly stated in the bible?

Chris has put what is written in the Bible in his own words I believe.

c_r · 07-07-2007, 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

Depends on the question.

The question is, as in post 203, 'Surely you utterly condemn this bishop's assertion that pro-gay laws have caused God to invoke his wrath though?'

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

Chris has put what is written in the Bible in his own words I believe.

I think that probably makes it his opinion then!

Russ · 07-07-2007, 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by c_r

The question is, as in post 203, 'Surely you utterly condemn this bishop's assertion that pro-gay laws have caused God to invoke his wrath though?'

As Chris says, a loaded question.

I don't claim to know the mind of God so I can't say for certain but if He is showing His wrath in this way then I believe it would be for many reasons, not just one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by c_r

I think that probably makes it his opinion then!

Really? I'd say it's Chris "putting the sweets on the lowest shelf" so to speak.