Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops

[sssshhhh]

My opinion as a young gay woman is this. I pay my taxes, look after my family and friends, I'm nice to old people, I love animals, I've never broken the law, never cheated on a partner. Basically I've lived a good life and generally been a good human being. So it really gets my goat when some idiot says the reason so many hundreds of people have lost their homes is because of people like me. I think not. It disgusts me that people of all religions continue to manipulate the teachings of their gods/idols to segregate the people of this world.

Originally Posted by sssshhhh

My opinion as a young gay woman is this. I pay my taxes, look after my family and friends, I'm nice to old people, I love animals, I've never broken the law, never cheated on a partner. Basically I've lived a good life and generally been a good human being. So it really gets my goat when some idiot says the reason so many hundreds of people have lost their homes is because of people like me. I think not. It disgusts me that people of all religions continue to manipulate the teachings of their gods/idols to segregate the people of this world.

Are you sufficiently familiar with 'all religions' to be able to say who is manipulating their teachings and who isn't? Do you know what the orthodox Christian position on homosexuality is? Or the view of other religions?

The Bishop in this case cast his net far wider than you're giving him credit for. He didn't say that gay-friendly laws are the be-all and end-all of the problems he sees in society, although he certainly used them as an example.

Seeing as you're apparently interested in the genuine, un-manipulated teachings of religion, allow me to quote you a line from the Bible:

"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" Romans chapter 3 verse 23

The link will give you the entire chapter so you can see it in context and satisfy yourself that I'm not manipulating anything.

God's standard for spending your afterlife as a guest in his house is extremely high - in fact, if it had a pass rate, it would be 100%. Nobody qualifies on their own merit, no matter how much tax they pay or how many grannies they help across the road. Even being a married heterosexual with two kids and a mortgage doesn't make you qualify. There is no point trying to make yourself good enough by doing good things, because you can't possibly do it well enough to satisfy the standards of an utterly perfect, spotless being such as God.

If that is of any concern to you at all, then the Christian's answer for it is also in Romans chapter 3. If it isn't ... then I'm puzzled why the ramblings of an out-of-touch old religious bigot should bother you in the slightest.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Russ B

edit: and to be fair, 3 of your examples are just about how to deal with them - not actually bashing them. Nice effort though

Thanks.....that wasn't all of them, just the ones I found easily

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Chris T

Are you sufficiently familiar with 'all religions' to be able to say who is manipulating their teachings and who isn't? Do you know what the orthodox Christian position on homosexuality is? Or the view of other religions?

The Bishop in this case cast his net far wider than you're giving him credit for. He didn't say that gay-friendly laws are the be-all and end-all of the problems he sees in society, although he certainly used them as an example.

Seeing as you're apparently interested in the genuine, un-manipulated teachings of religion, allow me to quote you a line from the Bible:

"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" Romans chapter 3 verse 23

The link will give you the entire chapter so you can see it in context and satisfy yourself that I'm not manipulating anything.

God's standard for spending your afterlife as a guest in his house is extremely high - in fact, if it had a pass rate, it would be 100%. Nobody qualifies on their own merit, no matter how much tax they pay or how many grannies they help across the road. Even being a married heterosexual with two kids and a mortgage doesn't make you qualify. There is no point trying to make yourself good enough by doing good things, because you can't possibly do it well enough to satisfy the standards of an utterly perfect, spotless being such as God.

If that is of any concern to you at all, then the Christian's answer for it is also in Romans chapter 3. If it isn't ... then I'm puzzled why the ramblings of an out-of-touch old religious bigot should bother you in the slightest.

Cracking good post - just as I've got to go out as well

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Chris T

<snip>

If that is of any concern to you at all, then the Christian's answer for it is also in Romans chapter 3. If it isn't ... then I'm puzzled why the ramblings of an out-of-touch old religious bigot should bother you in the slightest.

1. I'm pleased you agree he's an out-of-touch old religious bigot.
2. Doesn't it bother you that the CoE elects out-of-touch religious bigots into senior positions?

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

<snip>Just because i don't choose to follow the teachings of some fairytale does not mean that i or anyone else is a bad person or deserves some sort of judgement.<snippetty-snip>

Slightly O/T, but I have to say that, even though I have no religious leanings whatsoever, it does annoy me when people feel fit to use words such as 'fairytale' when refering the Bible (as I assume this reference is). It's somewhat unfair to use the phrase in a thread like this, whilst also objecting to the comment that the thread is about.

Fair's fair, it's your opinion, but it's somewhat condescending to those who do follow a faith, particularly taken in the context of this thread.

Just my , but there you go

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Chris T

There is no point trying to make yourself good enough by doing good things, because you can't possibly do it well enough to satisfy the standards of an utterly perfect, spotless being such as God.

But the Bish said that :

He expressed his sympathy for those who have been hit by the weather, but said that the problem with "environmental judgment is that it is indiscriminate".

That would indicate that god isn't quite so spotless or utterly perfect (since he is rather indiscriminate with his punishment)

[sssshhhh]

Originally Posted by Chris T

If that is of any concern to you at all, then the Christian's answer for it is also in Romans chapter 3. If it isn't ... then I'm puzzled why the ramblings of an out-of-touch old religious bigot should bother you in the slightest.

The same reason that the ramblings of a young gay woman shouldn't bother you in the slightest? Thank you for the RE lesson but there really is no need. I don't believe in God. And I didn't aim any of my comments at anyone who has posted in this thread, just passing comment on the way I reacted to the comments of the bishop in the OP. And if no-one reacts to these out-of-touch bigots how on earth are people like me ever going to be equal to our peers in todays world?

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by sssshhhh

The same reason that the ramblings of a young gay woman shouldn't bother you in the slightest? Thank you for the RE lesson but there really is no need. I don't believe in God. And I didn't aim any of my comments at anyone who has posted in this thread, just passing comment on the way I reacted to the comments of the bishop in the OP. And if no-one reacts to these out-of-touch bigots how on earth are people like me ever going to be equal to our peers in todays world?

Well said!

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by sssshhhh

The same reason that the ramblings of a young gay woman shouldn't bother you in the slightest? Thank you for the RE lesson but there really is no need. I don't believe in God. And I didn't aim any of my comments at anyone who has posted in this thread, just passing comment on the way I reacted to the comments of the bishop in the OP. And if no-one reacts to these out-of-touch bigots how on earth are people like me ever going to be equal to our peers in todays world?

But surely the fact that, using this thread as an example, most people (religious or not) have pretty much agreed that he's out of touch, why would you think that you're not equal to your peers. I can't speak for anyone else obviously but, in my opinion, you are anyway

Originally Posted by sssshhhh

The same reason that the ramblings of a young gay woman shouldn't bother you in the slightest? Thank you for the RE lesson but there really is no need. I don't believe in God. And I didn't aim any of my comments at anyone who has posted in this thread, just passing comment on the way I reacted to the comments of the bishop in the OP. And if no-one reacts to these out-of-touch bigots how on earth are people like me ever going to be equal to our peers in todays world?

You were the one using perjorative terms like 'it disgusts me' ... hence my conclusion that you are 'bothered' by the Bishop. I'm not bothered by you - I just see you being misinformed on a subject I care dearly about, and seeing as this is a discussion forum it seems appropriate to discuss.

As for whether you need an RE lesson - forgive me, but I think you do. You feel persecuted, and you're pointing a finger of blame. If you're going to blame someone, or an organisation, for something I think you have some sort of responsibility to understand what you're saying.

And as for whether you're equal - of course you're equal. Everyone is equal under God. IMO of course.

---------- Post added at 14:23 ---------- Previous post was at 14:22 ----------

Originally Posted by danielf

1. I'm pleased you agree he's an out-of-touch old religious bigot.
2. Doesn't it bother you that the CoE elects out-of-touch religious bigots into senior positions?

Smart alec

Originally Posted by Nugget

Slightly O/T, but I have to say that, even though I have no religious leanings whatsoever, it does annoy me when people feel fit to use words such as 'fairytale' when refering the Bible (as I assume this reference is). It's somewhat unfair to use the phrase in a thread like this, whilst also objecting to the comment that the thread is about.

Fair's fair, it's your opinion, but it's somewhat condescending to those who do follow a faith, particularly taken in the context of this thread.

Just my , but there you go

Excellent post (imho)

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Chris T

Smart alec

It's a genuine question

Originally Posted by Chris T

...snip.... There is no point trying to make yourself good enough by doing good things, because you can't possibly do it well enough to satisfy the standards of an utterly perfect, spotless being such as God....snip.

To be fair to sssshhhh (and my apologies if I am defending someone who doesn't want me to defend them), sssshhhh didn't say she was "trying to make your(her)self good enough by doing good things" - she just described how she lived her life; and it's probably the fact that the "ramblings of an out-of-touch old religious bigot" are also the statements from a senior member of the Church of England, and as such, taken seriously by some, if not a large number, of his church-members.

Originally Posted by foreverwar

To be fair to sssshhhh (and my apologies if I am defending someone who doesn't want me to defend them), sssshhhh didn't say she was "trying to make your(her)self good enough by doing good things" - she just described how she lived her life.

She said she had lived a good life, so was annoyed when someone suggested that she had not (and that the fact she had not may have caused a flood).

If we're going to move this discussion forwards at all, we need to try to establish why the Bish said what he did. Basic Christian concepts such as what true goodness really is (and whether we can attain it) are central to the Bishop's frame of reference.

On the other hand we could just skip straight to the point where threads like this usually end up getting closed, with any and all attempts at serious analysis dropped in favour of name-calling, parodies and cliches.