Prison Overcrowding

[Chris W]

Given that the prison population has now tipped 81000 and is still rising, isn't it about time something was done?

Interesting article on the subject of overcrowding to be found here. But more interesting (to me anyway) is this summary of stats about the prison population

The information made me think- is prison actually doing what it should be? Why are 72% of the male prison population classified as having two or more mental disorders? Are these disorders treatable/ managable? If so is this happening in prison? Is that why there are so many incidents of self harm in prisons?

As a society, we need to tackle the problems that are resulting in people being in prison- drug/ alcohol abuse/ childhood problems resulting in exclusion from school/ lack of education. And also we need to ensure that prison provides some kind of rehabilitation to stop people from reoffending-

Leaving prison
Re-offending rates among offenders are high - about two thirds are reconvicted within two years of release. Among men aged 18-21 the rate is about three quarters.
Accommodation problems are common - nearly one in three will not have somewhere to live upon release.
A majority of prisoners will have no job to go to and six out of 10 employers automatically exclude those with a criminal record

If the government and society tackled these problems, then we would be able to have fewer people in prison- we could tackle the causes of the problems, and we could provide a prison services that actually rehabilitates people, then perhaps they would stand a chance of success when they have paid their debt to society, and maybe they would reoffend.

[Druchii]

I read this as "Prison Overclocking", i thought you meant making the production speeds of prison faster.

And, on both counts i agree, something has to be done. We need more "storage" so to speak. But realistically, who's willing to foot the bill?

It's not a prison capacity issue - its all about social order and society as a whole. There is little respect shown for people and their property these days.

I'd hate to be in the Police force right now - chasing and catching criminals, day in, day out, for the courts to then throw them back out on to the streets for them to do it again and again and it's just one vicious cycle.

Then when they do get eventually sent to prison, their sentence is cut.

Lesson learned? I think not.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Chris W

Given that the prison population has now tipped 81000 and is still rising, isn't it about time something was done?

I am slightly biased but my personal opinion is that Prison isn't a deterrent any longer and that is one reason why re-offending rates are so high.
There was an article in the Sunday Herald last weekend that found some female prisoners were actually committing more crimes inside (fire raising etc.) or refusing conditions of parole as they preferred jail to being free. Their lives might be bad on the outside but jail should never (again in my personal opinion) be seen as a more attractive option.

Originally Posted by Chris W

Why are 72% of the male prison population classified as having two or more mental disorders?

I think the Police service and Prisons have become the new dumping ground for people with mental issues. Not helped by a sizable minority only having 'issues' when they are due in Court for sentencing for offences. Funnily enough they make a miraculous recovery after the sentencing date once their background reports show Prison would have a detrimental effect on their mental wellbeing and go back out thieving straightaway.

Originally Posted by Chris W

Is that why there are so many incidents of self harm in prisons?

I think there always has been only now they are being reported more widely. In the past they would have been swept under the carpet.

Originally Posted by Chris W

As a society, we need to tackle the problems that are resulting in people being in prison- drug/ alcohol abuse/ childhood problems resulting in exclusion from school/ lack of education.

Drug and alcohol abuse are major causes but alcohol is cheaper in a lot of places and drugs are more widely available (not that they are exactly hard to get in the UK) and they don't have, or appear to have the same issues the UK does with crime. I think as well as the prison issue there are more complex matters to do with the UK attitudes to crime and criminals.

And my final point (which will probably win the most disliked post of 2007 award from some) is that some people can't help themselves and no amount of rehabilitation will help them. They are quite simply unemployable. They don't come from a particularly bad background, they have had plenty of chances for education, training etc. yet they still continue to commit crime and view Prison as an occupational hazard knowing they'll have to be exceptionally unlucky to go away for a long stretch and if they do it won't be in the worst conditions.

[Escapee]

I agree with whats said by the posts here.

A) Prison is not enough of a deterrent for a previous offender many seem to re-offend because there is little fear of going back.

B) The mental problems are in the majority of cases brought on by drug abuse.

C) The problem cannot be overcome with any softly softly measures.

D) We need more prisons built.

E) Prison needs to be tougher.

F) We need to break down the gang culture.

G) We need to punish for crimes instead of letting criminals go.

H) To do G we need to make the justice system more efficient, so they not only convict the minority who hold their hands up to a crime.

[lowhydrogen]

Originally Posted by Mick

I'd hate to be in the Police force right now

a London copper told me a while ago, to his disgust, they weren't allowed to call it a "force" anymore because it's sound to aggressive

they are a service... something wrong there

[Russ]

So...."lock 'em up and throw away the key" is no longer an option then?

[BBKing]

'let em out, and throw away the key' has a much cheaper ring to it. It's introduced me to a whole new sensation - feeling sorry for Charlie Falconer. This is the fault of the Home Orifice under Blunkett, Clarke and Reid, the last of whom hived off the prison scandals onto Falconer without telling him (he found out about the Ministry of Justice split in the Sunday papers, apparently).

Escapee - if the prison population has gone up 40,000 are we:

a) Sending *more* people to prison for longer, because morlocks clamoured for 'tougher' sentences and other morlocks implemented them but didn't build any prisons or, apparently, do any assessment of the results of their implementation.
b) Sending *fewer* people to prison for longer, because lefty sandal wearing liberals like John Reid and Michael Howard have been in charge for the last fifteen years.

Send your answer on a postcard to 'I Can Add Up, Mister', P. O. Box eight trillion, Dungeness.

Actually, since 16,000 or so are on remand, surely speeding up the courts process would help? This isn't happening, there's the standard 'IT-cockup-closing-sacking-people' thing going on, plus the CPS being useless and not having cases ready on time.

http://thelawwestofealingbroadway.bl...s-cps-sfa.html

Oh, and all the points about drugs and mental issues - spot on. Legalise drugs, spend money on secure mental hospitals and trained nurses - let prison deal with the bad guys. Stop listening to the bloody tabloids, too.

[zoombini]

Aparently the Chinise are able to build 2 power stations a week, well I say lets get them to come over here and build us some prisons, they could soon hold all the criminals..

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by zoombini

Aparently the Chinise are able to build 2 power stations a week, well I say lets get them to come over here and build us some prisons, they could soon hold all the criminals..

Or we could export our crim's over there, let them execute them and sell us back the organs

The question is do all crimes deserve prison. Prison should keep people away from the public, for their own safety. Has prison ever really worked? Its always been said that it doesnt, really, prevent crime nor stop prisoner re-offending when they get out. In fact some go in for small crimes and learn how to be better at commiting crime.

I am not to sure how it could be done but alternative punishments should be used more with Prison the last resort.

[bw41101]

A dose of Sharia law wouldn't go amiss - and I'm not a Muslim!. At least offenders would know exactly what to expect for the crimes they commit, especially (when it seems) that the criminals have more rights than their victims - something seriously wrong here, especially (within the younger ranks) being a criminal is tantermount to a badge of honor!

I don't care what anyone says - we're too soft in this country, not to mention constant European interference which has (effectively) took the sting out of punishment for most crimes.

Back off Brussels and toughen up UK.........!

Si Thee

[BBKing]

Originally Posted by bw41101

I don't care what anyone says - we're too soft in this country

Nice start, shows a willingness to listen and debate, and a refreshing lack of fixed ideas.</sarcy>

If we're too soft, how come there are so many more people in prison despite crime not rising in proportion?

Originally Posted by bw41101

not to mention constant European interference which has (effectively) took the sting out of punishment for most crimes

What European interference? Which crimes? Do tell.

I say lets get them to come over here and build us some prisons

They're too busy rebuilding Africa, doing more good in the last five years than Geldof and co. have managed in 25 (Chinese investment has gone up tenfold in that time). Watch them carefully.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Mick

It's not a prison capacity issue - its all about social order and society as a whole. There is little respect shown for people and their property these days.

I'd hate to be in the Police force right now - chasing and catching criminals, day in, day out, for the courts to then throw them back out on to the streets for them to do it again and again and it's just one vicious cycle.

Then when they do get eventually sent to prison, their sentence is cut.

Lesson learned? I think not.

Just one reason why my Chief Inspector BIL is emigrating like so many of his colleagues. It's a great shame that the Police are sandwiched in the middle of inept politicians and a hugely cumbersome legal process.

---------- Post added at 08:19 ---------- Previous post was at 08:15 ----------

It seems to me that Blair wanted to lock more people up but, as always, Brown wasn't going to shell out for the prisons in which to put these people. The forecasts predicted this problem apparently but were ignored. Great!

I notice Brown's talking increasingly toughly on issues such as law & order so I wonder whether when he's no longer chancellor he'll expect money to be ploughed into prison places or whether it's just so much hot air from a guy who's worried his grip on power will be shortlived.

[Xaccers]

Who say's he's not going to be Chancellor?
After all, he managed to curtail many of Bliar's plans in revenge for not getting the head seat earlier, so do you think he's going to hand control of the purse strings to someone else who might do the same to him?