still racist

[dev]

Originally Posted by jkat

no i would call that putting things right

so you say giving people jobs based on skin colour right?

[JackB]

Originally Posted by dev

so you say giving people jobs based on skin colour right?

I'd call it racist but it happens anyway. It seems the goverment is promoting the same thing for political parties now.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../nrural414.xml

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by nicke261192

I dont think it is right to search black people there are a few in my school who are very nice and kind but whenever i am walking home i go past a muslim school where i find most of the parents very rude and they nudge past you. Im not being racist but it seems the majority of them are not nice

I have found the opposite to be true. The muslim and other darker skinned children and parents at our kids schools are very nice. In fact, only the white kids/parents exhibit anti-social and racist traits.

[Pia]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Where's your source for that from?

I think they said it on the ITV news yesterday lunchtime, that's where i heard that from anyway, not sure about the poster.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by dev

would you call setting targets to have minimum levels of black people working in higher paid jobs racist? i know i would, reason: race is being used to distinguish people.

I would call that racist, a job should be offered to a person based on the persons qualifications, motivation, ability to do the job and references. It is so easy (and I have seen it with a black person) for an employee to claim they were not given promotion due to their skin colour. In the one experience I have of such a complaint it was due to the woman being lazy and useless, and had nothing to do with her skin colour at all.

If groups or individuals in the workplace segregate themselves by race or religion how can they be treated the same as everyone else. Just because I get along with people in the workplace and muck in on a professional basis, does not mean I agree with their views, religious or moral beliefs.

Its all about making the effort, and when I make the effort and it fails, I do as they want. ie. treat them differently

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Pia

I think they said it on the ITV news yesterday lunchtime, that's where i heard that from anyway, not sure about the poster.

I think you'll find they said six times more likely to be stopped and searched, not six times more likely to be carrying drugs and knives. There's a very distinct difference.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Yep it's fantastic, we import workers when there are over a million people sitting on the dole

And the work gets done, taxes get paid, rather than taxes just paid out and the work not being done.


I'm sure we've had the discussion about how there's no such thing as positive discrimination before.
There is only discrimination.
If it is wrong to discriminate against a black or asian person, then it is wrong to discriminate against a white person.

Why should a company have to have set proportions of workers from different ethnic backgrounds if it's unrelated to their business?
Why should a white person who's perfect for the role be turned down in favour of someone of a different ethnic background and not up to scratch (not because of their race but because they aren't as skilled) simply to balance the ethnic groups in the company?

[willie]

Why should a white person who's perfect for the role be turned down in favour of someone of a different ethnic background and not up to scratch (not because of their race but because they aren't as skilled) simply to balance the ethnic groups in the company?

Well said

Would then the person who was better qualified yet turned down simply because of his/her ethnic origins have a case of racial discrimination?

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by willie

Well said

Would then the person who was better qualified yet turned down simply because of his/her ethnic origins have a case of racial discrimination?

Not if they were white!

I doubt very much if that would be taken seriously, I wonder if there are any statistics to show how many white people have tried to claim for racial discrimination and how many were successful.

All cases should be taken seriously, but a white person of UK origin claiming racial discrimination would be taken about as seriously as a man claiming sexual harrassment from a woman in the workplace.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by willie

Well said

Would then the person who was better qualified yet turned down simply because of his/her ethnic origins have a case of racial discrimination?

Proving racial discrimination in employment recruitment practices isn't, if you'll excuse the pun, that black and white.

Thats prob because people often cry discrimination if they dont get their own way . Of course they only didnt get the job etc because of the colour of the skin it couldnt be any other reason could it

What about the white man who doesnt get a job he is best suited to cuz the employer has figures to meet to make sure they dont get seen as prejudiced?

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Proving racial discrimination in employment recruitment practices isn't, if you'll excuse the pun, that black and white.

I do or should I say did, know a company in Cardiff about 4/5 years ago that would only employ people of Pakistani origin. I knew that at the time because it was a very lucrative job that my ex-girlfriends next door neighbour worked for.

I had been made redundant and fancied something temporary during the bad weather to push my planned 6 months sabatical until the nicer weather. I asked the neighbour who politely pointed out that they only employed people of Pakistani origin, I later discovered that this was in fact true and no-one else in that line of business ever bothered to ask that company about a job if they were not of Pakistani origin.

There are lots of discriminating organisations about, if you were to set up something advertised as only assisting white UK born people it would be racist. However we can have organisations like EBSP (Ethnis Business Support Programme) who are able to discriminate against those they choose.

It shouldn't be about scoring points, by setting up organisations to assist one group of ethnic, religious or skin colour minority it should not be allowed. We should instead concentrate on fair treatment for all.

Yet again the whole racism debate is about whites discriminating against ethnic minorities it does happen the other way round as well though that is rarely said. I have been on the end of more racism from ethnic minorities then i have seen going from whites to them. Ok maybe that is not the norm or maybe it is but if you are white your not taken seriously when you say you have been the victim in racism. Also i am willing to bet if figures came out about whites being stopped six times more then other races no one would say a damn thing. It is things like this that fuel racism not solve it and until all sides stop using race as a convinient subject it will always be a tinder box waiting to go up.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

What about the white man who doesnt get a job he is best suited to cuz the employer has figures to meet to make sure they dont get seen as prejudiced?

That might possibly warrant an allegation of racial discrimination on the part of the company but, as I said earlier, there are too many factors in the process of employment recruitment which could be cited as determining factors.

Terms like "best suited" and "best qualified" are largely irrelevant in employment scenarios where interviews and interview performance are a predominant determinant in the appointment of a successful candidate.

For example, it is highly unlikely that Stephen Hawking would get a front line CS support call centre job at theoreticalphysicistsRus over an equally qualified black person who is not physically afflicted in the same way. The fact is - like it or not - that visual predeterminants and preconceptions of ability / disability go quite some way to making the end decision.

On that basis one would have to ask oneself if he was discriminated against due to his disability, his race or a preconception held by one or more of the interviewers which led to a reflection of "poor performance at interview" or "not fitting the company profile" if indeed he was "discriminated" against at all.

There are just too many factors.

Personally speaking I'm not aware of any company having been prosecuted for positive discrimination but I do know that current law and EU directives 2000/43 & 2000/78 will bring considerable changes to this field before the year end.

EDIT

Escapee, I just saw your post. With all due respect there is a difference between you "knowing" and someone "proving".

Additionally, your assertion that "no-one else in that line of business ever bothered to ask that company about a job if they were not of Pakistani origin." is evidence of self exclusion / discrimination - not proof of discrimination on the part of the company.

As long as it brings equality to the whole thing ie escapees example. If it only ends up helping those of ethnic origin "risked that one" then its discrimiating to whites and therefore against its own law