how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by danielf

What if they reply saying they don't store the information in a manner that allows them to look at details for specific dates? Are they under any obligation to store this data (given that the decision to shape is made on the data for a particular day)?

(Not being funny, just wondering)

It is interesting that VM have some tool that shapes, yet do not have any functionality to enable the end recipient of that shaping to review it, instead they suggest DUMeter which on a networked (CM connected to Router) connection is very hard to implement.

---------- Post added at 19:02 ---------- Previous post was at 19:01 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Entirely valid points.

However, if a company is going to allege that I'm one the top 5% of abusers and treat me like one then I'd like them to be able to substantiate that allegation - be that through the DPA or in a court of law.

after all it may be your friend cloned CM/MAC address.

[dontpannic]

Originally Posted by supercyber

OK I LIKE TO CLEAR THIS THING WITH "UP TO"

lets just say that ur on the 4mb service, that means u should get 512KBytes PER second download.

but this is not the case, its nver the case, all depends the who u download from, etc etc, including the noise on the line.

thats is y that term is used. HOWEVER ITS NOT A JUSTIFICATION TO USE THAT "UP TO" TERM TO THROTTLE SPEED INTENTIONALLY.

SO ALL U PPL WHO KEEPS SAYING OH, THEY SAY "UP TO" PLZ GET UR FACTS STRIGHT.

---------- Post added at 22:12 ---------- Previous post was at 22:02 ----------

ohh yea frogot to add this:

if VM have nothink to worry about, then y did thye call me back 3 times after i sent a compaline to ISPA.

its a funny think, coz 4 some reason they offer me £32.50 reducation on my service.

lol i keep telling them i dont care about the money, but i dont want limit on my BW.

---------- Post added at 22:14 ---------- Previous post was at 22:12 ----------



no of course not unlimited speed, WHAT U talking about lol

the limit on speed are clear, 2mb, 4mb or 10mb?

so what the confusion there.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.

You are never guaranteed to get a constant 2/4/20mpbs link. There are too many factors in that - servers you download from, network noise, traffic, etc etc, need I go on? And can you tell me what that has to do with Throttling? Up To advertising does not mean that they can throttle your speed intentionally, they need to throttle to stop people like you from maxing out your line and ruining everyone else on your UBR's broadband link. Yes, VM do have the technology to offer 20mb broadband, but the network will fail if all the 20mb users were maxing out thier line all the time.

As an example, everyone has a kettle right? If everyone in the country turned their kettle on at the same time there would be a surge at the power stations and the national grid probably wouldn't be able to cope. I think, rather than you telling the literate public to "GET UR FACTS STRIGHT" I think you should go and reconsider everything you've said. I can't take serious advice from someone who spells "nothing" with a K.

The only viable reason I can see that you want your broadband connection seperate from the STM implementation is that you can go and leech more porn and illegal downloads than anyone else. Grow up.

Oh, and its THING with a G, not somthink. No wonder you have bad reps!

---------- Post added at 09:59 ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 ----------

Originally Posted by pedrohizzo

The problem with your argument is that every other ISP uses the "upto" term in advertising because they might not be able to provide it due to the nature of the service where as VM are using it as a way to rip you off.

How exactly? There has always been a FUP/AUP in place, just that the people who think this is an outrage have never read their contract, thats all...

[Stuart]

First, can I say to anyone who is using txt speak in your posts, please don't. It makes them harder to read. You have a full size keyboard, and are not limited to 160 characters (small keypad and 160 character SMS limit are the reasons Txt spk was invented), so use normal English.

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004

Here we go again, how many times does it need explaining the word " unlimited " ?

But, you are already unlimited, but subject to a speed limit (what's 20 meg if not a speed limit?). Shaping just lowers that limit temporarily.

I'm not defending Virgin Media as I personally would rather they had plowed that 30 million they gave to some of their board back into the network (surely *that* would have paid for a few more UBRs if nothing else).

---------- Post added at 10:22 ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 ----------

Originally Posted by dontpannic

How exactly? There has always been a FUP/AUP in place, just that the people who think this is an outrage have never read their contract, thats all...

True. When I signed up for NTL broadband in 2000, there was already a clause in the AUP that enabled them to take action against what they termed Heavy downloaders.

[dontpannic]

Originally Posted by Stuart C

First, can I say to anyone who is using txt speak in your posts, please don't. It makes them harder to read. You have a full size keyboard, and are not limited to 160 characters (small keypad and 160 character SMS limit are the reasons Txt spk was invented), so use normal English.




But, you are already unlimited, but subject to a speed limit (what's 20 meg if not a speed limit?). Shaping just lowers that limit temporarily.

I'm not defending Virgin Media as I personally would rather they had plowed that 30 million they gave to some of their board back into the network (surely *that* would have paid for a few more UBRs if nothing else).

---------- Post added at 10:22 ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 ----------



True. When I signed up for NTL broadband in 2000, there was already a clause in the AUP that enabled them to take action against what they termed Heavy downloaders.

Look at that! Backed up by a mod!!

[Paul H]

Originally Posted by Stuart C

But, you are already unlimited, but subject to a speed limit (what's 20 meg if not a speed limit?). Shaping just lowers that limit temporarily.

Isn't the whole point of broadband the speed? that is what all of them aim their marketing at. download at supersonic speeds! I think they've lost the plot now because they don't want you to have the speed.

[dontpannic]

Originally Posted by Paul H

Isn't the whole point of broadband the speed? that is what all of them aim their marketing at. download at supersonic speeds! I think they've lost the plot now because they don't want you to have the speed.

Yes, broadband is about being an always on connection which is faster than dial up. On a 20meg shaped to 5 meg connection you will still be 100x faster than dial up!? and 2 1/4 mb faster than the UK average!

Anyway, they do want us to have the speed, evidently, otherwise they wouldnt provide it. What they don't want, however is 95% of their customer base having slow connections down to the 5% of idiots who max out thier connections 24/7 ruining everyone elses online experience.

[Paul H]

Originally Posted by dontpannic

Yes, broadband is about being an always on connection which is faster than dial up. On a 20meg shaped to 5 meg connection you will still be 100x faster than dial up!? and 2 1/4 mb faster than the UK average!

Well as long as it is still faster than dial up and others. then I suppose that is all that matters!

Anyway, they do want us to have the speed, evidently, otherwise they wouldnt provide it.

Provide it in figures? how can they be providing it when they are reducing everyones speed?

What they don't want, however is 95% of their customer base having slow connections down to the 5% of idiots who max out thier connections 24/7 ruining everyone elses online experience.

We could believe that before. but when you find out that they have no money to upgrade the infastructure. you have to think that is the real reason.

[dontpannic]

Originally Posted by Paul H

Well as long as it is still faster than dial up and others. then I suppose that is all that matters!

Don't be sarcastic mate, not a good tone there.

Provide it in figures? how can they be providing it when they are reducing everyones speed?

How are they reducing everyones speed? Mine certainly hasn't gone down, as with many friends and relatives with VM. I think you'll find that not every VM customer has registered on these forums...

We could believe that before. but when you find out that they have no money to upgrade the infastructure. you have to think that is the real reason.

And are you suprised? When ever VM decide to do something that will benefit the network, all you hear is "crap I goin 2 Sky coz deyll let me dnload lts of porn n illegal tv init"

I'm only 18 but I find it disgusting that nobody can see that Virgin are doing this to keep customers happy and stop the network abusers bringing the network down to its knees.

It seems that whenever there is a new post about speeds, without looking at the facts its definitely traffic shaping causing that, get Sky instead, when that is a rubbish point of view.

• People complaining about STM on 10meg connections are talking crap. 10meg hasn't been enabled with STM yet, so how they are definitely 100% certainly being shaped even though they definitely haven't downloaded anything at all is beyond me.
• People don't seem to be looking at the facts. A 20meg connection bringing downstream bandwidth of 1 meg is NOT an STM issue!!! 20meg is shaped to 5, not 1meg.

I'm just getting sick of it now. It seems no-one can do anything for anyone nowadays without some do-gooding jobsworth butting in "ooh no, that speed isn't a problem with your modem its definitely being shaped there. Ooh phone up and complain, then get a nice big discount".

It seems people are assuming EVERYONE is suffering slow speeds. I'm certainly not. I was downloading Ubuntu last night at a solid 2.27MB/s which is definitely the correct speed. Then had a few hours online gaming. I never hit the throttling limit. (and before you say that my area isn't being throttled, it is, I have 20mb).

Many people here have really got to wake up and smell the coffee. This isn't the end of the world. Yeah, your downloads may take a little longer but who cares? It's not like a relative of yours has been diagnosed with a terminal disease (even then you can bet your life it's Virgin Medias fault ).

Nick

[Paul H]

Originally Posted by dontpannic

Don't be sarcastic mate, not a good tone there.

There was no other way of saying it.
It is true. you are saying it's still faster than dial up and a lot other providers, as if that makes it all ok.

How are they reducing everyones speed? Mine certainly hasn't gone down, as with many friends and relatives with VM. I think you'll find that not every VM customer has registered on these forums...

At the risk of sounding sarcastic again. they are reducing the speeds by the throttling thing they're doing. yours and others might not have gone down, but is that because you're not throttled yet, or because you have not hit the limit where you would? everyone will be throttled when they reach the limit.

And are you suprised? When ever VM decide to do something that will benefit the network, all you hear is "crap I goin 2 Sky coz deyll let me dnload lts of porn n illegal tv init"

I'm only 18 but I find it disgusting that nobody can see that Virgin are doing this to keep customers happy and stop the network abusers bringing the network down to its knees.

I think it is benefiting the network by saving them money. and I don't think it is keeping the majority of customers happy. there is still a large majority that don't even know. when they do eventually find out they might approve, and they might not. but we do know that everyone is entitled to their opinion

[Florence]

After talking to VM CS I put a scenario to them if I unplugged the modem all day plugged it in after 4pm after work, downloaded a product paid for or a large Microsoft beta file that maxed me out on download only would i be capped. I was told yes as i would be in the 5%....... At one time it was what was used all day that worked out who was the 5% not 20/40mins in the evening when people come home from work.

[Paul H]

Originally Posted by Florence

After talking to VM CS I put a scenario to them if I unplugged the modem all day plugged it in after 4pm after work, downloaded a product paid for or a large Microsoft beta file that maxed me out on download only would i be capped. I was told yes as i would be in the 5%....... At one time it was what was used all day that worked out who was the 5% not 20/40mins in the evening when people come home from work.

Exactly. the 5% is flawed. there is no 5% as anyone who downloads to their limit is hit by this. this is where people are losing trust with Virgin because they say one thing and do another.

[dontpannic]

Originally Posted by Paul H

There was no other way of saying it.
It is true. you are saying it's still faster than dial up and a lot other providers, as if that makes it all ok.

It's not all OK, admittedly, but people are going way over the top about this. Sorry - I was a little harsh!

At the risk of sounding sarcastic again. they are reducing the speeds by the throttling thing they're doing. yours and others might not have gone down, but is that because you're not throttled yet, or because you have not hit the limit where you would? everyone will be throttled when they reach the limit.

The thing is not everyone is going to hit the limit, therefore not everyone's speeds are going to go down.

I think it is benefiting the network by saving them money

Out of interest how is it going to save them money?

and I don't think it is keeping the majority of customers happy. there is still a large majority that don't even know.

How do we know that these people will find out? Not all of them will notice the difference between 20meg and 5 meg, my parent's didn't notice between 20meg and 10meg!

when they do eventually find out they might approve, and they might not. but we do know that everyone is entitled to their opinion

Hear hear. Opinions are everything and I can appreciate others point of view - but it's not a scandal, its not an outrage, its a speed limit for those of us who download quite a lot.

I'm sticking by my opinion. It seems so many on these forums are on a strict hate campaign against Virgin that there is no converting them to seeing the other side of the argument.

[Paul H]

Originally Posted by dontpannic

I'm sticking by my opinion. It seems so many on these forums are on a strict hate campaign against Virgin that there is no converting them to seeing the correct side of the argument.

I am not being sarcastic and I'm not being rude, but that comment says it all

[Florence]

Originally Posted by dontpannic

its a speed limit for those of us who download quite a lot.

Not totally true as I said in my post if you have the modem unplugged all day plug in download 400mb on a 2mb connection you are capped that might be all you downloaded that day while someone else might have already maxed out their connection al day.

This will not improve the lower speed customers by much as we all know those who download the most go for the faster speeds and they are not capped enough to stop them doing it.

The network cannot take the faster speeds i know this by my connection which often hangs and I am on 4MB always after 4pm.. Will I see an improvement not so far and once the 50MB comes out it will only get worse.

[dontpannic]

Originally Posted by Paul H

I am not being sarcastic and I'm not being rude, but that comment says it all

That is why I edited my post as soon as I posted it

---------- Post added at 13:13 ---------- Previous post was at 13:13 ----------

Originally Posted by Florence

Not totally true as I said in my post if you have the modem unplugged all day plug in download 400mb on a 2mb connection you are capped that might be all you downloaded that day while someone else might have already maxed out their connection al day.

This will not improve the lower speed customers by much as we all know those who download the most go for the faster speeds and they are not capped enough to stop them doing it.

The network cannot take the faster speeds i know this by my connection which often hangs and I am on 4MB always after 4pm.. Will I see an improvement not so far and once the 50MB comes out it will only get worse.

I can admit that the threshold is lower on the lower tiers...