Would you pay to get your cash?

[SMHarman]

Someday we will have to start paying for our banking again. We are in the curious position in this country that we have free personal banking, something virtually nowhere else in the world has. Effectivly personal banking is cross subsidised by other products, but when you think the average small business account charges 20p to pay something in 40p to write a cheque and 25p to make an electronic payment or withdrawal then you can add up how much the bank thinks your account costs to run.

ATM fees, well there is a cost to runnign the network, but £1 + a transaction I don't think so. What this could well lead to is people withdrawing more cash each time and a greater risk of muggings though.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Paul M

Every man and his dog offers cashback these days, off the top of my head I can think of over 10 shops within 1 - 2 miles of me.

It's a security benefit to them, they have less cash on premesis, less cash to take to the bank and risk being mugged at the night safe and the bank charges them less as they have to handle less cash for the company.

[Mr_love_monkey]

I think they should be allowed to charge you, if you use another banks machine...... but only if they have a policy where there is always one of their own cash machines no more than a ten minute walk away - this is why people use other machines, because in a lot of areas you'll have one bank, and people don't want to go for a 15 minute drive so that they can withdraw some of their money.

I'd also like to see it so that the bank compenstates you when their cash machines either a) run out of money, or b) stop working, if they're going to start charging for getting money from other machines.

Somehow I don't think it will happen though

[etccarmageddon]

they managed to run the machine networks for free up until now - so they're just trying to milk it. it's not as if we're in the midst of a recession and they're losing loads of dosh to businesses which are defaulting on loans etc.

[bob_a_builder]

then you can add up how much the bank thinks your account costs to run.

Just because they think thats what they would like to charge is not a good reason to accept it

"High street's Big Four make big profits but offer poor service - so it may be time to switch. Britain's biggest banks continue to make bumper profits, breaking record after record for coining it in. Nor, are these figures one-offs. The combined profits of the Big Four banks rose to almost £20 billion last year. However, while the banks' results are good news for shareholders, campaigners for customers' rights believe the profits have been achieved at the expense of their account-holders. "There has to be something wrong with an industry where companies are continually able to boast record profits," said Eddy Weatherill from the Independent Banking Advisory Service. "This can only reflect profiteering by the banks whose expertise lies in ripping off customers in every conceivable way - poor rates of interest for customers in credit, steep charges on overdrafts and poor value service." That view is shared by the Consumers' Association, which runs the Switch With Which campaign urging customers to dump the big four"

LINK

I would be 'happy' to pay a nominal fee (10 pence or so) for using a cash machine belonging to a bank, other than my own. If my own bank (Halifax plc), start charging me to use my own ATM's then I shall only withdraw money from the teller's inside the bank. If I get any hastle from them for doing so, I'll quickle close the account and take my custom else where. I've moved money from other finincial institutions before, for less, so I'll certainly not put up with crap from my current bank.

its the norm to be charged to use an ATM in the USA

[danielf]

Originally Posted by gary_580

its the norm to be charged to use an ATM in the USA

How much do they charge?

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by danielf

How much do they charge?

An ATM located in a mall would charge $1.50 like they are proposing / do over here. I'm not sure about the charging of withdrawing from your own network.

Originally Posted by danielf

How much do they charge?

I've heard its $1.50 from own bank as well

[danielf]

Originally Posted by gary_580

I've heard its $1.50 from own bank as well

I think that is a ridiculously high charge, and like others have said, I would change banks over it. (Assuming other banks don't charge as much).

Originally Posted by SMHarman

Someday we will have to start paying for our banking again. We are in the curious position in this country that we have free personal banking, something virtually nowhere else in the world has.

And we have banks that:

1) pay laughable rates of "interest" (0.1%!),

2) charge usurious rates of interest unauthorised overdrafts (30% in some cases!!)

3) charge you £10 a transaction if you go over your limit and then have the gall to charge you for letters *telling* you you've gone overdrawn!

4) take three days to clear cheques (and then say there's no need for them to change the system because everyone's going to be using plastic for everything soon, but in the mean time they're loaning out our money on short term deals to financial institutions and making interest on it)

5) foist Chip and Pin cards on us "for security" but don't warn us that if our card is abused it's going to be up to *us* to prove that we *weren't* careless with our PIN, despite the fact that many input terminals are not screened or are in clear view of check-out operators or security cameras...

Remind me again *why* we should be *paying* for this...

Effectivly personal banking is cross subsidised by other products, but when you think the average small business account charges 20p to pay something in 40p to write a cheque and 25p to make an electronic payment or withdrawal then you can add up how much the bank thinks your account costs to run.

No, you can add up how much the bank thinks it can get away with charging.

Do you *really* think that those charges are justified? Do you really think they represent the cost to the bank of processing each of those transactions (especially the electronic ones?) Hell no!

ATM fees, well there is a cost to runnign the network, but £1 + a transaction I don't think so. What this could well lead to is people withdrawing more cash each time and a greater risk of muggings though.

And, of course, it will hit poorer people more. If you take out £100 pounds, it's only a 1% charge. If you take out only £10, that's a 10% charge!

The banks have been ripping us off for years. We change spouses more often than we change banks!

It's no point being "loyal" to a bank, because they don't give a toss about you or your loyalty once they've got your custom.

[Scarlett]

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

switch to the www.nationwide.co.uk - they are the ones fighting the rip offs that the banks are forever trying to inflict on the consumer - it was them that stood up to barclays 4 years ago when Barclays tried to impose charges without approval of link.

Amen to that! I did just that about 3 years ago. Haven't looked back.

As for the charging in malls and stuff. What's happening is that Banks (who've realised that the public will NOT accept £1.50 per withdrawal no matter what fancy spin the put on it) have stopped to put in new cash machines (and have started to remove some), especially in rural locations.
This niche has now been filled by private companies who can charge and people accept it because its 'not a bank' doing it. If I have to make a withdrawal from one of these machines, I make sure that I take out £50+ so that the extra £1.50 doesn't seem too bad.

BTW did any one else ever see the leaflet that Barclays produced just after the backed down over charging link customers. It was absolutely hilarious! "We felt that it was a good idea not to charge our customers" Really ? so all the articles in the papers about how you felt that everyone should pay for the privilege of using your machines (because you had more than anyone else) we false then ?

[bob_a_builder]

take three days to clear cheques

Three Days - If only !!

"Now it's SIX days to clear Halifax cheques. The interest they earn adds to the £60m 'scam' on customers by banks. One of Britain's biggest banking groups is extending its cheque clearance time by two days. Many customers at Halifax Bank of Scotland - HBOS - will now have to wait six working days to access their money. The change will take place on July 26 and will affect Halifax's Card Cash Account and the Bank of Scotland's Easycash Account, both basic banking accounts. IBAS chief executive slammed the move last night. 'This is prehistoric and obscene,' he said. 'They are being remarkably stupid going against what even the governor of the Bank of England is saying. It makes no sense going backwards. It is greedy and can only be for their benefit, not the customers. There can be no other reason than they need to make a bit more money.' In Sweden, Belgium, Holland and Spain cheques are cleared on the same day. In France and Germany, they take a day to clear. - Daily Mail 13/07/2004"

LINK

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Graham

And we have banks that:

1) pay laughable rates of "interest" (0.1%!),

2) charge usurious rates of interest unauthorised overdrafts (30% in some cases!!)

3) charge you £10 a transaction if you go over your limit and then have the gall to charge you for letters *telling* you you've gone overdrawn!

4) take three days to clear cheques (and then say there's no need for them to change the system because everyone's going to be using plastic for everything soon, but in the mean time they're loaning out our money on short term deals to financial institutions and making interest on it)

5) foist Chip and Pin cards on us "for security" but don't warn us that if our card is abused it's going to be up to *us* to prove that we *weren't* careless with our PIN, despite the fact that many input terminals are not screened or are in clear view of check-out operators or security cameras...

Remind me again *why* we should be *paying* for this...

I agree with all of that, this distorted charging has arisen in an attempt to make money from the basic cheque account product since Midland (blessem) moved the country onto free banking 30 years ago. Certainly technology has made cheque accounts (who writes cheques on them now) much cheaper to run, no quill pens and ledgers, but there is still a cost, someone who keeps their cards safe and does not damage them will cost the bank far less money than someone who washes them, snaps them etc and requires a new card every 3 months.

Someone who utilises unauthorised overdrafts in these days of internet banking, text banking, telephone banking and statements from ATMs is a little foolish.

And don't get me going on chip and pin either, does wonders for the protection of the bank on CNP transactions . You and I both know that.

Originally Posted by Graham

No, you can add up how much the bank thinks it can get away with charging.

Do you *really* think that those charges are justified? Do you really think they represent the cost to the bank of processing each of those transactions (especially the electronic ones?) Hell no!

And now they are telling us that cheques never clear, how does that work, a cheque I banked today for £900 and is supposedly clear on Monday could well be withdrawn from my account 6 month later if the issuing bank changes its mind. How do you mitigate that risk in your business?

Costs of transactions, well they are disproportionate, the actual electronic fee charge for using the SWIFT/CHAPS network (for same day transfers) is about 2p. You need to add some labour and infrastructure costs to that, but to get to £25+ for the payment when you buy your house is outragous. I kinda agree with penal charges on cheques - why people use them now is beyond me, but they should also charge appropriately for on line electronic transactions, say 5p each.

Originally Posted by Graham

And, of course, it will hit poorer people more. If you take out £100 pounds, it's only a 1% charge. If you take out only £10, that's a 10% charge!

The banks have been ripping us off for years. We change spouses more often than we change banks!

It's no point being "loyal" to a bank, because they don't give a toss about you or your loyalty once they've got your custom.

And this is one of the biggest problems with the whole thing, the govt has moved the nation to collect their pensions and welfare from basic bank accounts, not post offices and the banks are now charging high %ages on such withdrawals diminishing the value of these benefits further, especially in more rural locations where free ATMs will slowly dissapear.

Originally Posted by bob_a_builder

Three Days - If only !!

"Now it's SIX days to clear Halifax cheques. The interest they earn adds to the £60m 'scam' on customers by banks. One of Britain's biggest banking groups is extending its cheque clearance time by two days. Many customers at Halifax Bank of Scotland - HBOS - will now have to wait six working days to access their money. The change will take place on July 26 and will affect Halifax's Card Cash Account and the Bank of Scotland's Easycash Account, both basic banking accounts. IBAS chief executive slammed the move last night. 'This is prehistoric and obscene,' he said. 'They are being remarkably stupid going against what even the governor of the Bank of England is saying. It makes no sense going backwards. It is greedy and can only be for their benefit, not the customers. There can be no other reason than they need to make a bit more money.' In Sweden, Belgium, Holland and Spain cheques are cleared on the same day. In France and Germany, they take a day to clear. - Daily Mail 13/07/2004"

LINK

Actually cheques now never clear, in a clever legal twist, a bank can revoke a cheque at any time, removing the funds from the recipients account. So only accept cheques from people you know won't ask them to be revoked.