smoking and the pub

[Salu]

Here's a question to smokers....

If the government decided to legalise cannabis and ignoring the morals of it for a moment, how would you feel if there were people all around you in every pub causing you to inhale it without your permission. I appreciate you may also be smoking it but if you chose not to then wouldn't you object to passively inhaling cannabis?

My point is still that my not smoking can't possibly harm you smokers but by you smokers smoking you WILL harm or effect me. Therefore as both our "rights" cannot be met the law has to protect the innocent ie the non smoker.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Salu

Here's a question to smokers....

If the government decided to legalise cannabis and ignoring the morals of it for a moment, how would you feel if there were people all around you in every pub causing you to inhale it without your permission. I appreciate you may also be smoking it but if you chose not to then wouldn't you object to passively inhaling cannabis?

Very, very high?

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Salu

Here's a question to smokers....

If the government decided to legalise cannabis and ignoring the morals of it for a moment, how would you feel if there were people all around you in every pub causing you to inhale it without your permission. I appreciate you may also be smoking it but if you chose not to then wouldn't you object to passively inhaling cannabis?

My point is still that my not smoking can't possibly harm you smokers but by you smokers smoking you WILL harm or effect me. Therefore as both our "rights" cannot be met the law has to protect the innocent ie the non smoker.

But if there was a choice of smoking or non smoking pubs etc etc, you could choose not to go to the smoking pubs. That's my whole beef over this, the lack of choice.

[hatedbythemail]

well unless you totally ignore the realities of the employment market, staff do not get a choice - and in other industries employers have a duty to protect their staff. if you want to cite choice, landlords can choose to go and open bars in countries where smoking is allowed. in fact anyone who's been to traditional sunshine haunts of the brits will see a number have already done so

to me this is just another sensible piece of health and safety legislation for which, as has continually been pointed out, landlords have had plenty of time to prepare.

[Salu]

It's a hard balance to get between my rights and your rights, choice and discrimination and nanny state intrusion and law. The more selfsh we are as individuals in society the harder this is. My point is that we need to remember that we are a society and live as if we have neighbours rather than as if we lived in this world alone.

Originally Posted by orangebird

But if there was a choice of smoking or non smoking pubs etc etc, you could choose not to go to the smoking pubs. That's my whole beef over this, the lack of choice.

That is never going to be a "choice" though as it excludes the word Public from Pub and makes it a club. Even then that would be bordering on discrimination nowadays wouldn't it?

At the end of the day smoking is pretty antisocial isn't it, let alone the health implications? Usually anything that involves emitting a putrid smell in public is regarded as offensive in society.

[hatedbythemail]

i wondered when my bottom would come into this.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Salu

It's a hard balance to get between my rights and your rights, choice and discrimination and nanny state intrusion and law. The more selfsh we are as individuals in society the harder this is. My point is that we need to remember that we are a society and live as if we have neighbours rather than as if we lived in this world alone.



That is never going to be a "choice" though as it excludes the word Public from Pub and makes it a club. Even then that would be bordering on discrimination nowadays wouldn't it?

At the end of the day smoking is pretty antisocial isn't it, let alone the health implications? Usually anything that involves emitting a putrid smell in public is regarded as offensive in society.

Yes, it is antisocial. But why not let us 'antisocial' people have a quick fag with our drink on a night out in a smoking pub, and you 'social' people go to a pub that has chosen to ban smoking? No-one's forcing you to go into a pub, are they?

[Angua]

Then you would have to create separate leagues for all the pub games. Given that some pubs rely on this trade and some leagues would fold if there were not enough teams this would cause the demise of some pubs.

Originally Posted by orangebird

Yes, it is antisocial. But why not let us 'antisocial' people have a quick fag with our drink on a night out in a smoking pub, and you 'social' people go to a pub that has chosen to ban smoking? No-one's forcing you to go into a pub, are they?

People that would still be affected
- Smokers with non-smoking partners (one or other would be "discriminated" against)
- People with friends that smoke - you can always go outside for a quick smoke, not quite the same as going outside for some fresh air
- Non-smoking staff (unless you make it compulsory to hire only staff that smoke, but wouldn't that be "discrimination")

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Angua

Then you would have to create separate leagues for all the pub games. Given that some pubs rely on this trade and some leagues would fold if there were not enough teams this would cause the demise of some pubs.

But banning smoking has contributed to the demise of 600 pubs in Southern Ireland, so what's the difference?

Originally Posted by orangebird

But banning smoking has contributed to the demise of 600 pubs in Southern Ireland, so what's the difference?

But Punch Taverns in Scotland have said it has not affected business, and in fact, they expect to see an increase due to the smoking ban.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

People that would still be affected
- Smokers with non-smoking partners (one or other would be "discriminated" against)

I smoke, my husband doesn't - he's an ex smoker, to doesn't mind at all if people do smoke. Thankfully, he's one of the few 'social' people who has his head in a place other than his ****, and wouldn't dream of being so sanctimonious or patronising.

- People with friends that smoke - you can always go outside for a quick smoke, not quite the same as going outside for some fresh air

Please explain why not?

- Non-smoking staff (unless you make it compulsory to hire only staff that smoke, but wouldn't that be "discrimination")

No - you can advertise a job, stating that if you were to apply, you would need to bear in mind it was in an establishment that allowed smoking. Then the choice is yours.

---------- Post added at 15:30 ---------- Previous post was at 15:27 ----------

Originally Posted by foreverwar

But Punch Taverns in Scotland have said it has not affected business, and in fact, they expect to see an increase due to the smoking ban.

Good for them - but can they class any of their pubs as rural? Also, it's a lot easier for chains to stay afloat. They can dictate their prices, or at least negotiate a good discount for volume orders. Freehold rural pubs don't have such power. Therefore they'll lose their regular smoking customers, and what else can they do?

Originally Posted by orangebird

I smoke, my husband doesn't - he's an ex smoker, to doesn't mind at all if people do smoke. Thankfully, he's one of the few 'social' people who has his head in a place other than his ****, and wouldn't dream of being so sanctimonious or patronising.
Hey, I willingly go in pubs where people smoke - I just think it's nice, since it has been proven that smoking not only kills smokers, but also kills non-smokers, that public places (including pubs) should be non-smoking; Just because I disagree with you does not make me "sanctimonious" or "have my head up my ****" - it just means I disagree with you.

Please explain why not?
Because if you go outside for a quick fag, only you are inhaling the noxious poisonous fumes - a non-smoker going outside for a quick gasp of fresh air isn't going to clear all the poison out of his lungs in two minutes.


No - you can advertise a job, stating that if you were to apply, you would need to bear in mind it was in an establishment that allowed smoking. Then the choice is yours.
So an unemployed person has to choose between health and employment - nice!

[hatedbythemail]

Originally Posted by orangebird

I smoke, my husband doesn't - he's an ex smoker, to doesn't mind at all if people do smoke. Thankfully, he's one of the few 'social' people who has his head in a place other than his ****, and wouldn't dream of being so sanctimonious or patronising.

i say, steady on chap

Please explain why not?

well for starters you would have to stay out permanently to guarantee uniterrupoted supply of clean air. this may affect staff prouctivity

No - you can advertise a job, stating that if you were to apply, you would need to bear in mind it was in an establishment that allowed smoking. Then the choice is yours.

only if you assume an unregulated market will ensure that people have real choice not to work in environment which might harm their health. i do not go along with that assumption by any stretch.

[orangebird]

You assume that every person that wants to work in a bar is as narrow minded and non smoking as some people on here are.

---------- Post added at 15:36 ---------- Previous post was at 15:33 ----------

Originally Posted by hatedbythemail

i<snip> well for starters you would have to stay out permanently to guarantee uniterrupoted supply of clean air. this may affect staff prouctivity


<snip>

I really hope these same people that want an uniterrupted supply of clean air don't drive cars, or walk round town on a busy saturday afternoon or.......

Oh, sorry, none of that counts does it.