School forces girls to wear head scarves

Originally Posted by hatedbythemail

and c of e schools which have muslim pupils attend religious assemblies and services hosted by the church with which they are allied? this, incidentally, something which muslim pupils and parents accept without complaint.

but the key issue for me is the government's insistence on closing established schools and replacing them with academies which are invariably co-funded by religious groups - mainly christian. i personally would like to see an end to faith schools and an even greater emphasis in the curriculum on religions and allied cultural issues so that we can foster mutual respect between those of different faiths and those with no faith.

Parents have always had the right to opt their children out of any religious observance at any state school. I'm surprised you're unaware of this. Any muslim children who attend Christian assemblies at C of E schools, do so because their parents chose not to use that right.

[hatedbythemail]

they have to wear boaters at harrow
The best-known public example of Harrow tradition is probably the Harrow hat, which resembles a boater in materials and shape. This hat is worn to all lessons except in the late afternoon. Weekday dress consists of a white shirt, black tie, grey trousers, blue jumper and a bluer (see below). Sunday dress consists of a black evening tailcoat, pinstriped trousers, a black waistcoat, black tie and a white shirt. Variations include a grey waistcoat for those in the top sports teams, a hat with black speckles for boys in the top cricket team, and various society ties worn to meetings of the respective societies. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrow_school#Uniform


strikes me the boater carries its own cultural connotations

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

This school in question is a muslim faith school with rules regarding uniform. A non muslim choosing to attend the school for whatever reason will be aware of these rules at time of application.

I just don't think the 'you don't like it, you don't come here' argument holds any water in a state-built and funded school. Especially when much of the Government's spin about parents being able to choose where their children are schooled remains largely a myth. State funded schools should be sensitive to their local community, which includes the 10% non-muslim pupil population they will have.

A variation on the uniform for non-muslims is not unreasonable in the slightest. Many non-muslim state schools have accepted variations on their uniforms in case a muslim does want to wear the veil. This seems to me to be a far more inclusive and tolerant way to behave. Or is inclusivity and tolerance only required when it is exercised towards minority groups?

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by Chris T

It's an Islamic faith school that was built with £15 million of taxpayers' money. I am all for religious schools being able to decide exactly who they admit, what they teach and what they wear, but not when they are part of the public, state-funded network that we all pay for and have the right to send our children to.

The same should apply to all faith schools (state funded) irregardless of the religion they follow then. So lets ban the choirs at christmas, church ceremonies harvest, morning prayers, etc etc on teh same grounds.

Every school nowadays seem to have some form of selection policy, and most if not all have rules regarding uniform/jewellery/attendance/subjects etc etc. Surely when you apply to send your kids to any school (faith or non faith thats state funded ) there are conditions which you have to adhere to.

Originally Posted by hatedbythemail

they have to wear boaters at harrow

strikes me the boater carries its own cultural connotations

What's that, surely not a straw maan blowing in the wind?

Harrow is an entirely private enterprise with no state funding. You pays your money, you takes your choice. If you don't like the symbolism of the Harrow Hat, send your kids to a Montessori school instead.

This is not even remotely comparable with the matter under discussion.

[hatedbythemail]

Originally Posted by Chris T

Parents have always had the right to opt their children out of any religious observance at any state school. I'm surprised you're unaware of this. Any muslim children who attend Christian assemblies at C of E schools, do so because their parents chose not to use that right.

all fine and dandy if pupils have the choice to attend a local school not alliued to a faith group. that is most definitely not always the case. like i say i would like to see faith schools abolished in favour of comprehensive education that embraces and respects all faiths and none.

still, good to see yet another thread arrive that will no doubt descend into the usual muslim battering. theres a prize for the first person to use the word "pandering" ;-) :-)

[eddie00001]

Originally Posted by Chris T

Parents have always had the right to opt their children out of any religious observance at any state school. I'm surprised you're unaware of this. Any muslim children who attend Christian assemblies at C of E schools, do so because their parents chose not to use that right.

Thats what happened back when I was in school. There were a few children who were Muslims, and they used to sit in a classroom near the hall. When the 'religious' side was over, a teacher would then call them in for announcements etc.

Pandering.

Whats the prize?

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

The same should apply to all faith schools (state funded) irregardless of the religion they follow then. So lets ban the choirs at christmas, church ceremonies harvest, morning prayers, etc etc on teh same grounds.

Every school nowadays seem to have some form of selection policy, and most if not all have rules regarding uniform/jewellery/attendance/subjects etc etc. Surely when you apply to send your kids to any school (faith or non faith thats state funded ) there are conditions which you have to adhere to.

No, let's not ban anything. I don't think the scarf should be banned from this school's dress code. But I do think some folks need to stop being dishonest about it, acknowledge it is an overtly religious symbol, and allow a reasonable variation in the uniform for those who choose not to wear it.

In precisely the same way as C of E schools are not permitted to mandate attendance at their own religious activities.

[hatedbythemail]

Originally Posted by Chris T

What's that, surely not a straw maan blowing in the wind?

Harrow is an entirely private enterprise with no state funding. You pays your money, you takes your choice. If you don't like the symbolism of the Harrow Hat, send your kids to a Montessori school instead.

This is not even remotely comparable with the matter under discussion.

academies are funded by state and church. they are "independent state schools" "sponsored and managed by independent sponsors" (which include private schools incidentally). they may not be fee paying but they enjoy relative autonomy from the local education authority so i think the analogy stands up pretty well.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by hatedbythemail

all fine and dandy if pupils have the choice to attend a local school not alliued to a faith group. that is most definitely not always the case. like i say i would like to see faith schools abolished in favour of comprehensive education that embraces and respects all faiths and none.

still, good to see yet another thread arrive that will no doubt descend into the usual muslim battering. theres a prize for the first person to use the word "pandering" ;-) :-)

It's not about 'pandering', it's about the sheer hypocrisy of it all. Jack Straw asks (asks!!!! Not demands!!!!) muslim women to remove their scarves when talking to him in his surgery and there's outrage and uproar. Yet a Muslim faith (yet state funded) school demands that all female students wear a head scarf. And worst of all, under the guise that it's uniform ie **** all to do with their faith, which it blatantly is.

[hatedbythemail]

Originally Posted by Tuftus

Pandering.

Whats the prize?

one week's free cultural diversity training :-)

Originally Posted by hatedbythemail

academies are funded by state and church. they are "independent state schools" "sponsored and managed by independent sponsors" (which include private schools incidentally). they may not be fee paying but they enjoy relative autonomy from the local education authority so i think the analogy stands up pretty well.

Really? OK then, so could you demonstrate how Harrow has benefited from taxpayers' money to the tune of anything like £15 million, as was spent in Leicester?

[eddie00001]

Originally Posted by hatedbythemail

academies are funded by state and church. they are "independent state schools" "sponsored and managed by independent sponsors" (which include private schools incidentally). they may not be fee paying but they enjoy relative autonomy from the local education authority so i think the analogy stands up pretty well.

But you inclusion of Harrow is not. To send a child to Harrow, you're looking a t the best part of £20k to send them there, so therefore you'll be accepting the culture, climate/conditions that your child will be taught in, that includes their uniform. So you cannot really compare this to a state funded school, that maybe the closest one to send your child too.

[Jules]

Originally Posted by hatedbythemail

and c of e schools which have muslim pupils attend religious assemblies and services hosted by the church with which they are allied? this, incidentally, something which muslim pupils and parents accept without complaint.

Not in the school across from me, they are excused Assembly and at the end of term being a C of E school the pupils attend church which they are also excused from