NTL proxy problems

[stevehay]

I have had for at least two years problems with my default proxy accessing one particular site. I know friends who have the same problem (accessing www.ebuyer.com). I get round it by accessing ebuyer via another NTL proxy. Obviously the transparent cache must be badfor this site but can I ever get NTL to fix this. NO .... They don't have enough technical expertise in their front line support to even understand the problem. Why does NTL not allow us to force the cache to refresh ourselves?

[kat2]

have you tried proxy switchers like pc mesh, or hide ip plat, or even smac? they all seem to work for me, smac changes your mac address which can force an ip change, pc mesh is a really good proxy switcher that works.
huggies kat2

[Matth]

Messing about with the Polar area again... on, off, on - currently on and showing all the signs of a bad one, some sites normal, others insanely slow. Are they EVER going to get it right - perhaps it's time they tried Squid freeware, it couldn't be any worse!

[Matth]

Did another test:
The rest of the 62.255.83.6-14 group were all transferring at 100KB/s
62.255.83.11 ... 1KB/s, if it moved at all, and any sites unlucky enough to get that one crawl at sub-dialup speed.

Can someone with the ear of anyone technical at NTL please pass it on that this server is BROKEN (or perhaps the routing for it is defective). Alternatively, it is overloaded by 100:1 as compared to any of the others.

I have spent much time talking to people very high up at NTL and I can tell you this:

1. No one at NTL knows who can make a decision about removal of proxy servers.

2. NTL do not believe that there is a wide spread issue with their proxy system

3. NTL have absolutely no plans to stop using proxy servers

[Toto]

Originally Posted by ofirgal

I have spent much time talking to people very high up at NTL and I can tell you this:

1. No one at NTL knows who can make a decision about removal of proxy servers.

There are people at ntl who can make that decision, but we'd (or maybe just me) be interested to know how high you have been able to go.

Originally Posted by ofirgal

2. NTL do not believe that there is a wide spread issue with their proxy system

There isn't a wide spread issue that's why, there are local proxy issues which need sorting. The problem is that the apparent fixes appear not to work from the customers, us, perspective.

Originally Posted by ofirgal

3. NTL have absolutely no plans to stop using proxy servers

Probably true.

Originally Posted by Toto

There are people at ntl who can make that decision, but we'd (or maybe just me) be interested to know how high you have been able to go.

There isn't a wide spread issue that's why, there are local proxy issues which need sorting. The problem is that the apparent fixes appear not to work from the customers, us, perspective.

Probably true.

I have gone as high as the executive office, which is just a polite version of the same lies NTL feeds its customers. They do NOT know who can make this decision at NTL. You can read more about it on the site that I am not allowed to advertsise here...

The issue is widespread and I have plenty of evidence to support that, any claim that it isn't can only be one of the two - ignorance or lies. I have provided NTL with plentuy of evidence to show that they have widespread problems with the proxy system.

[Chrysalis]

There isn't a wide spread issue that's why, there are local proxy issues which need sorting. The problem is that the apparent fixes appear not to work from the customers, us, perspective.

I think you be a minority saying that, I certianly remember my ntl browsing days and usually had at least a few issues each day from general browsing caused by the proxies, on top of that their was a permanent reduction in performance. Their are also some sites that arent proxy friendly which is what I would call another widespread issue.

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

I think you be a minority saying that, I certianly remember my ntl browsing days and usually had at least a few issues each day from general browsing caused by the proxies, on top of that their was a permanent reduction in performance. Their are also some sites that arent proxy friendly which is what I would call another widespread issue.

Indeed, a quick search in google will reveal the long and troubled history of NTL's proxy servers. Why else have a topic dedicated to the problem?

[Toto]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

I think you be a minority saying that, I certianly remember my ntl browsing days and usually had at least a few issues each day from general browsing caused by the proxies, on top of that their was a permanent reduction in performance. Their are also some sites that arent proxy friendly which is what I would call another widespread issue.

I may well be in a minority compared to the other posters in this site yes, but I still hold my view that they are localised problems.

Also, sites that are not proxy friendly.....isn't that the responsibility of the site developers?

E.g, using http_x_forwrded_for to capture the IP address of a person going through a proxy rather than relying on remote_addr. Using the appropriate no-cache meta tags?

Look, don't get me wrong, there are obviously issues, but until the whole network collapses under the weight of ntl proxy failures, I honestly think they are going to carry on as is. Unless of course somebody is now running the network who worked on the Telewest side, and was responsible for not forcing their customers through proxies, rather allowing the customer the opportunity to specify one if they want.

They've been off in Nottingham for 3+ months now - long may it continue.

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by Toto

I may well be in a minority compared to the other posters in this site yes, but I still hold my view that they are localised problems.

Also, sites that are not proxy friendly.....isn't that the responsibility of the site developers?

E.g, using http_x_forwrded_for to capture the IP address of a person going through a proxy rather than relying on remote_addr. Using the appropriate no-cache meta tags?

Look, don't get me wrong, there are obviously issues, but until the whole network collapses under the weight of ntl proxy failures, I honestly think they are going to carry on as is. Unless of course somebody is now running the network who worked on the Telewest side, and was responsible for not forcing their customers through proxies, rather allowing the customer the opportunity to specify one if they want.

no it isnt, transperent proxes break http standards.

[Matth]

There are two seperate issues:

1. Some sites are just not coded to handle proxies sensibly... this is not NTL's problem.

2. There ARE frequent problems with one or more of the proxies, in terms of performance, which could be setup/tuning, network issues, malfunctioning proxy, or miscalculation of load estimates.

The actual proxy troubles are either localised (but recurrent), or a sometimes a factor of the particular type or setup (eg Inktomi versus Netapp) - in general, the Netapps seem to be more reliable, but occasionally have issues with some sites (a setup issue, most likely, as the case I'm thinking of was a simple split - all the Inktomi's worked, all the Netapps didn't).

Originally Posted by Matth

There are two seperate issues:

1. Some sites are just not coded to handle proxies sensibly... this is not NTL's problem.

2. There ARE frequent problems with one or more of the proxies, in terms of performance, which could be setup/tuning, network issues, malfunctioning proxy, or miscalculation of load estimates.

The actual proxy troubles are either localised (but recurrent), or a sometimes a factor of the particular type or setup (eg Inktomi versus Netapp) - in general, the Netapps seem to be more reliable, but occasionally have issues with some sites (a setup issue, most likely, as the case I'm thinking of was a simple split - all the Inktomi's worked, all the Netapps didn't).

Why should I, a paying user, care? They can use shoes and laces to route the traffic, as long as it works. I don't care if it's local, inktomi or anything else.

It is obvious that NTL don't have the know how or the will to fix these problems. We are talking here (IMHO) about a very corrupt company and that should always be remembered. When you do remember this, everything makes sense.

---------- Post added at 23:08 ---------- Previous post was at 23:04 ----------

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

no it isnt, transperent proxes break http standards.

Exactly. It also carries moral and ethical questions as well as privacy, security and reliability concerns.

I doubt the proxy servers at NTL actually save any bandwidth. Much of the web is dynamic content and even static pages use no-cache directives. Of course this may be too technical for NTL management.

---------- Post added at 23:13 ---------- Previous post was at 23:08 ----------

Originally Posted by Matth

There are two seperate issues:

1. Some sites are just not coded to handle proxies sensibly... this is not NTL's problem.

Another NTL classic! Do you even realise how arrogant your reply is?

Anything that affects the quality of service NTL customers are getting is, by definition NTL's problem.

And besides, this sentence is factually wrong too. What about bbc.co.uk is proxy incompatible?

Once again, we get a live public demo of NTLs attitude. I's the wrong leaves syndrome all over again...

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

no it isnt, transperent proxes break http standards.

Could you please clarify - what standards exactly do they break ?

Originally Posted by ofirgal

It is obvious that NTL don't have the know how or the will to fix these problems.

So you know all ntl's engineers and their skill sets do you ?

Originally Posted by ofirgal

I doubt the proxy servers at NTL actually save any bandwidth. Much of the web is dynamic content and even static pages use no-cache directives.

They will save some bandwidth, but I would agree it's probably very little these days, and not worth the hasstle they cause.

Originally Posted by ofirgal

Another NTL classic! Do you even realise how arrogant your reply is?

Possibly not as arrogant as yours.

Originally Posted by ofirgal

Anything that affects the quality of service NTL customers are getting is, by definition NTL's problem.

Poor coding is not ntl's problem (or indeed any other ISP's problem). Next you'll be blaming them for all of IE's security problems (sorry, but that's poor coding on the part of M$).

Originally Posted by ofirgal

And besides, this sentence is factually wrong too. What about bbc.co.uk is proxy incompatible?

Perhaps you need to re-read the word some in the sentance, he never said all.

FYI, I hate ntl's proxy servers just like everyone else, and would love to see them all turned off for good, but please stick to facts about them, not ill informed or inaccurate rantings about ntl staff and other members posts.