Analogue TV

[m419]

In City of Westminster, these are the cable companies which operate there:

Ex-BT Cable franchise: NTL
Ex-Videotron franchise: NTL
Ex-Cable London franchise: Telewest

The ex-videotron franchise has a telephone network with it and I know for a fact that it reaches Oxford street and Paddington. In fact Mercury payphones later interphone payphones were connected to the Videotron network.

The Cable London franchise of Telewest goes down Great Portland street and reaches as far as Covent Garden, Flextech is actually based on Great Portland street.

The councils have also commented on the long delay of NTL upgrading the networks to digital as they want to use NTL's broadband services. Many local councils use NTL Telewest for Broadband and tele-services.

NTL have been the owners of these two cable networks for around 7 or 8 years and they have not done much to improve the service despite all its claims that it will invest millions and have it completed by 2005. Well its nearly 2007 and its still as it was back in 1997.

[ghengiskhan]

Hence my main point, people are being denied services by NTL because they do not reside in a digital area.

People have to stick with analogues reduced service until their area becomes digital.

[gunfleet]

Originally Posted by ghengiskhan

Hence my main point, people are being denied services by NTL because they do not reside in a digital area.

People have to stick with analogues reduced service until their area becomes digital.

I am in an ex-videotron area of West London but only have analogue available (no phone line option), this is because I'm in a block of flats. How many other analogue "islands" are there across the region, and will they ever be upgraded, or just lose the service?

We are not allowed individual dishes, but Sky have recently been leafleting the block offering a free communal roof top dish if more than 4 subscribers sign up.

[lostandconfused]

i thought ntl had an agreement with BT that they wouldnt supply westminster with telco lines? has anyone else heard this?

[e1london]

Originally Posted by gunfleet

I am in an ex-videotron area of West London but only have analogue available (no phone line option), this is because I'm in a block of flats. How many other analogue "islands" are there across the region, and will they ever be upgraded, or just lose the service?

We are not allowed individual dishes, but Sky have recently been leafleting the block offering a free communal roof top dish if more than 4 subscribers sign up.

I'm in the 'analoge island' of London E1 and really want to upgrade to digital, but nobody from ntl can tell me when that might be!

[Juan]

If someone is upgraded to digital, would an Analogue box still work on the line or is the Analogue signal switched off ?

Also, do Digital and Analogue STB's have to have different power levels set in the street cabinet?

[m419]

Originally Posted by gunfleet

I am in an ex-videotron area of West London but only have analogue available (no phone line option), this is because I'm in a block of flats. How many other analogue "islands" are there across the region, and will they ever be upgraded, or just lose the service?

We are not allowed individual dishes, but Sky have recently been leafleting the block offering a free communal roof top dish if more than 4 subscribers sign up.

Well if there is no phone line, then you must be using the ex-BT network. Because as far as I know, Videotron operated a telephone service and is the largest in London.

---------- Post added at 10:28 ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 ----------

Originally Posted by lostandconfused

i thought ntl had an agreement with BT that they wouldnt supply westminster with telco lines? has anyone else heard this?

No, very much doubt it. NTL are a private independent company meaning that they can really dig up streets and install what ever they like once they have informed the council. NTL holds licences to do so. Only Ofcom and local councils can revoke it.

BT has no right to object a new phone service by NTL. Furthermore, Westminster is a Conservative constituency, and they were the ones that introduced competition, so westminster isn't likely to refuse.

However, if you all stay with NTL's analogue TV service, when all upgrades are complete and when the rebrand is complete, you all might get some kind of goodwill gesture for putting up with it for so long! Like discounted or even free Digital TV.

What NTL can do for those in ex-BT areas and properties with no NTL phone line:

1. Provide telephone service over a BT line offering the same level of service as you would with an NTL line.

2. Upgrade network to digital, so that NTL Digital TV services and Broadband can be provided.

3. Send one bill for all 3 services.

The whole network is just a complete shambols in West London!

[gunfleet]

Originally Posted by m419

Well if there is no phone line, then you must be using the ex-BT network. Because as far as I know, Videotron operated a telephone service and is the largest in London.

This area of Acton was one of the first Videotron TV only installations, when the phone service was added it was not rolled out to apartment blocks. The area has never been BT.

As you point out West London is a mess and NTL cannot say if we will be upgraded, an NTL engineer recently advised me to keep phoning NTL CS to check on digital availability, however with the long and expensive wait to get through, I am not going to be taking his advice.

[m419]

Right well if its that part of London, you should expect to see some improvement soon. With regards to Videotron telephone service, I think they must of run out of money and then later, when they wanted to continue expanding, the local council must have refused permission, otherwise they probably just ran out of money. A few years later, Videotron,Nynex,Mercury Communications,Bell cable and Cable and Wireless created a new cable company called Cable and Wireless Communications and all these franchises where put into this new company, whilst all these changes were being made, CWC must have forgotten about it completely. That new company and lasted 2 and a half years when it was sold off again to NTL. Usually, when companies are aquired and then sold off and aquired by another company again, services to customers usually decline. So I would suggest contacting NTL's planning team to discuss the telephone situation.


This is what I found on the NTL media site:

New York, New York (July 18 1999)--NTL Incorporated (NASDAQ: NTLI; EASDAQ: NTLI.ED) ntl announces that it has acquired certain broadband cable franchises from British Telecommunications plc (“BTâ⠂¬Â�). The franchises are located in Westminster and Milton Keynes and cover a total of approximately 210,000 homes, approximately 189,000 of which are passed by broadband networks. The acquisitions increase ntl’s total franchise homes in the UK and Ireland to more than 5.8 million homes.

ntl expects to invest approximately £15 million pounds to upgrade the networks for digital cable, interactive services and high speed internet access. In addition, ntl will pay BT £5 million on closing and up to £14 million on completion of the upgrade of the Westminster network. Thereafter, ntl will lease the networks from BT on a long term basis for an annual lease payment of approximately £3.9 million.

Westminster is one of the UK’s most prestigious cable franchises, and gives ntl a strategically important presence in the heart of London. The franchise covers approximately 137,000 homes and enables ntl to reach the offices and homes of key people within the UK government and leading businesses. This network will be connected to ntl’s fibre facilities in London. Milton Keynes fills an important geographic area within ntl’s existing cluster of franchises, connecting in the north to our Northampton franchise, in the east to our Bedfordshire franchise and in the south to our Oxford franchise. This franchise covers approximately 74,000 homes, and has achieved 81% customer penetration. In addition to these franchises, ntl will acquire an additional 24,000 homes which are served by narrowband cable systems.

It seems a very expensive process and could see the two franchises closing!

[Horizon]

What is so sad in all this is how the cable franchises were created in the first place. What should be the jewel in the cable crown, London, is a patchwork of several networks using out of date technology and delivering third rate services. The most powerful and wealthy people live in London (especially Westminster) but can they spend some of their millions on VOD or broadband? No, because some of the differing networks haven't been upgraded yet.

It could've have been so diffrent....

In the 80's, rather than allowing companies their own exclusive patches, any company should've been allowed to lay down cable and run services over it. What I think would have happened is that the big North American cable cos like Nynex,TCI,Videotron and the Baby Bells would've, at first, concentrated all their efforts in laying cable in London and other big cities like Manchester and Birmingham. In the large cities you would have had several cable cos directly competiting with each other as well as BT. This would have led to, I think, better services being offered much earlier and would have forced BT to roll out services like broadband much quicker too than they actually have done. The cable cos would've had to of kept uprading their networks to offer the "latest thing" and keep the prices down to consumers. I believe the cable cos would've moved into profit very quickly only serving the large cities. Eventually the companies would've consolidated at that point into perhaps 2 or 3. Then and only then, the cable cos would've began to move into other parts of the country laying cable into towns and smaller built-up areas.

Under that scenerio, there would have been no merging of lots of smaller networks and all the costs that have incurred. And once 2 or 3 cable cos emerged out of the cities, the cable companies would have been large enough to gain better deals with hardware/channel suppliers, thus reducing costs further. Perhaps they would've had their own premium tv content by now if this had happened, rather then drooling at Sky's or Setanta's premium sports. Although, ntl could buy Setanta today if wished...

The reason I say all this, is look at the BT local-loop unbundling and the effect that diffrent ASDL resellers have had on the broadband market. Becuase of the fierce competition, companies have had to innovate and keep prices down. Would ntl really be trialling 20mb now if it wern't for other companies already offering, albeit limited, 24mb services? I don't think so. Just think if there were a few big nationwide cable companies slugging it out, what effects that would have on services today. I bet those in Westminster would be watching Hi-Def films over fibre-optic cables now, not watching analogue tv and no access to broadband. Good job I live to the east of London

[gunfleet]

Some interesting background information there. I do remember the original Videotron it was around 1992-3 and had the famous Mosaic channel, many of the channel numbers have not changed here since, with The Box on Ch.02 and Sky on Ch.11. There was a greater choice back then with Sky Movies, Sky Gold, TV5 (french), Zee TV and MBC. I do remember prior to the cable franchises when BT offered to provide a fibre network to all homes in the UK providing they kept their monopoly, Thatcher turned them down in favour of more competition. Ironic that after all these years we are effectively back to one provider.

[Horizon]

...yes, gone full circle. Good point about BT there, I'd forgotton that. What should've happened is that BT should've been allowed to build its fibre network - nationwide. No doubt with tax payers subsidies...Then BT should have been split up a bit like now, with BT as the network provider in charge of maintenence of the network. But any company allowed to offer services over that network.

What I think will happen now, if we take America as an example and things here usually do mirror things over there. With the cable industry now united but in billions of debt and BT no longer has the restrictions placed on it to offer video/tv services. BT, like the American Baby Bells (not that their babies anymore...) will build a fibre network to customers homes. And becuase its built with private money, I doubt it will be forced to open up this network to other companies. This will put cable in a weak position and it doesn't have the money to do the same. I think someone will buy the united cableco to fight against BT, someone with a lot of money and experience, ie Deutche Telekom. Whoever has the best network, can offer the best services. So interesting times ahead and of course there's wireless technologies and other things out there as well to compete.

I think the press release posted by m419 basically says (apart from lack of money) why ntl hasn't upgraded the Westminster network and perhaps other areas too. It isn't theirs....it's leased from BT. Didn't know that. No wonder ntl haven't been in a rush to spend money in central London.

[lostandconfused]

i think the main reason why several companies were not allowed to have cable in the same area is due to the local councils.
if there are 3 cable companies in one street it means that when there is a blocked T the road will have to be dug up 3 times as much causing 3 times as many problems, in an ideal world it would be good to dig it up once and get all the work done but can anyone actually see that happening?

[Horizon]

Can't say for certain, but I don't think the councils had any say at all in how the cable industry was set up. In the same way they don't have any say on any other national issue. And besides, I frequently walk down roads where streets are dug up for water main works. The next week it's gas, week after electricity, week after that gas again.

As I understand it, councils have to be informed about road digs, but have no power to say when such works can go ahead.

It's interesting how decisions made 20 years ago affect things today. The Thatcher Government of the 80's had the right idea in introducing competition into the telecoms "market". But just went about it the wrong way. If it wern't for these threads, I wouldn't believe that some of the richest areas in London and the country don't have access to the same "basic" services like digital tv and broadband that I do. What I don't understand is why all the Docklands area can't get these services even now.

[m419]

Councils actually have a big say especially if the network runs along council property.

According to Telewest, my local council can tell Telewest to get on its bike at anytime, I live in a council block of maisonettes and if the council wanted to eliminate this block from having Telewest, they can do. The council receives revenue from cable companies running there network along properties.

Furthermore, a few ammendments were changed in 2003. The councils now have more power on telecommunications companies. The Communications Act 2003 gives councils the ability to remove street equipment or enforce companies to remove it. Lambeth council in London took advantage of this and tore down several telephone boxes operated by interphone and sent the bill to the company, the reason for this was, because the company was not maintaining the equipment and the kiosks were in a bad state.

London Borough of Camden has also forced Telewest to fix all those street cabinets. first of all, the council cleaned off the flyposters and sent a very big bill to Telewest, but Camden council has threatened Telewest that it will remove certain street cabinets that are usually in a bad state or else constantly a danger to the public. It is expected that London Borough of Islington is to follow this too.