Tory economic policy (or lack of?)

Originally Posted by Foreverwar"

My point was - why were you highlighting the fact that 99% of Turks were Muslim, when it is a secular society? I was curious as to the relevance of this point. You seem to have clarified it (slightly) with your point re "race relations".

Turkey is a secular society. The Church of England is losing its relevance in our society and the EU is secular in its approach. So what? Turkey is still 99% muslim. Will the influx of more immigrants, especially muslim ones, help the British people in any way?

Originally Posted by freezin

Turkey is a secular society. The Church of England is losing its relevance in our society and the EU is secular in its approach. So what? Turkey is still 99% muslim. Will the influx of more immigrants, especially muslim ones, help the British people in any way?

I am confused, freezin - why should the fact they are Muslim make any difference?

[Pierre]

Here we F**king go again.

Once, just once, it would be nice to have a discussion where muslims are not mentioned.

Originally Posted by foreverwar

I am confused, freezin - why should the fact they are Muslim make any difference?

Huge difference in culture perhaps? Honour killings and arranged marriages, race riots between ethnic groups, the growth in religious fundamentalism, and even suicide bombers. Muslims can, and the majority do, live in peaceful co-existence with their neighbours, but those who don't are a problem now, and I can't see how this would improve when Turkey's population is given free access. Clear enough?

Originally Posted by freezin

Will the influx of more immigrants, especially muslim ones, help the British people in any way?

Will it?

I apologise if this discussion is boring you Pierre, but I don't recall contributing to such a debate in the past, although I am sure there have been many! I want to know if the supporters of mainstream political parties can justify all this.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by freezin

Huge difference in culture perhaps? Honour killings and arranged marriages, race riots between ethnic groups, the growth in religious fundamentalism, and even suicide bombers. Muslims can, and the majority do, live in peaceful co-existence with their neighbours, but those who don't are a problem now, and I can't see how this would improve when Turkey's population is given free access. Clear enough?


Will it?

Why don't you ask the Germans?
They've lived with a large internal Turkish population for many many years.

[hatedbythemail]

interesting to see that the issues which have defined and destroyed toryism in the past, and which cameron is thyerefore rapidly distancing himself from, are resurfacing here ;-)

Originally Posted by xaccers

Why don't you ask the Germans?
They've lived with a large internal Turkish population for many many years.

I don't know any Germans to ask. I do know lots of French and Dutch people who quite definitely do not want Turkey in the EU. Turkey taking on the EU's acquis communautaire is bound to cause conflict. There is a growing European people's movement trying to stop its accession. I don't think they will succeed.

http://www.voiceforeurope.org/

---------- Post added at 10:12 ---------- Previous post was at 10:08 ----------

Originally Posted by hatedbythemail

interesting to see that the issues which have defined and destroyed toryism in the past, and which cameron is thyerefore rapidly distancing himself from, are resurfacing here ;-)

And you think Cameron is going to make the party?

[Pierre]

Turkey is moderate muslim country. I've been there many times and had a great time every time.

I think the inclusion of Turkey in the EU is essential to help our relations with other muslim countrys.

An islamic country included in the European Union I think is a good thing and it would show that the EU is not a christians only club.

Originally Posted by freezin

I don't know any Germans to ask. I do know lots of French and Dutch people who quite definitely do not want Turkey in the EU. Turkey taking on the EU's acquis communautaire is bound to cause conflict. There is a growing European people's movement trying to stop its accession. I don't think they will succeed.

http://www.voiceforeurope.org/

Nice open organisataion, the voiceforeurope -
Contacts page
http://www.voiceforeurope.org/info/info/contacts/
Contacts
c/o: Boris Blauth
info@voiceforeurope.org
telephone:
address:

About us
http://www.voiceforeurope.org/info/info/about_us/
"Today’s Europe has its roots in the rationalism of ancient Greece, in the notion of law of ancient Rome and in the tradition of Judaistic and Christian culture. Humanism, Reformation and Enlightenment have contributed to accomplishing the freedoms we enjoy today.

The European civilization and its values have developed through thousands of years therefore it is worth protecting and cultivating this heritage. Countries not supporting European values should not be invited to join the EU."

Sort of misses the point about the Moorish influences on "European" culture, doesn't it? So basically if your not Judeo-Christian, or Humanist, you can b*gger off? Nice!

Originally Posted by freezin

And you think Cameron is going to make the party?

Doing a lot better than the Eurobashing, let's bring back Maggie & Tebbit, fiscally unsound (let's cut taxes and work out how we can afford it later) crowd.

[hatedbythemail]

Originally Posted by freezin

I


And you think Cameron is going to make the party?

i think the tories now have a far better chance of winning. hes clever and personable.

heres what i think is going on. cameron is looking at the tory brand and reinventing it so it has market appeal (the old tory brand having failed to keep up with market trends). so hes using marketing practice and first determining what the brand's values are upon which he will base the product range - policies. he has three years to finalise that product range but he wants to establish what the brand stands for and should mean to people first.

i say this as someone who is definitely not a tory supporter.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Turkey is moderate muslim country. I've been there many times and had a great time every time.
I think the inclusion of Turkey in the EU is essential to help our relations with other muslim countrys.
An islamic country included in the European Union I think is a good thing and it would show that the EU is not a christians only club.

---------- Post added at 10:35 ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 ----------

Originally Posted by hatedbythemail

.... snip .....
i say this as someone who is definitely not a tory supporter.

You sure?

I thought I saw in yesterday's paper, that George Osborne said you and Ed Balls had been members of the Tory Party whilst at University.

[hatedbythemail]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

You sure?

I thought I saw in yesterday's paper, that George Osborne said you and Ed Balls had been members of the Tory Party whilst at University.

i went to poly. would never get near a position of power in either party ;-)

Originally Posted by hatedbythemail

i went to poly. would never get near a position of power in either party ;-)

They're all Universities now

[hatedbythemail]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

They're all Universities now

bet theyre not actually seen as such by the ruling oxbridge set though eh? ;-)

Originally Posted by hatedbythemail

bet theyre not actually seen as such by the ruling oxbridge set though eh? ;-)

I don't believe it's as bad as it used to be - quite a number of parents of pupils in my daughter's sixth form convinced their kidults not to apply to Oxbridge, as while the cachet is still there, quite a few of the courses aren't up to scratch. They were convinced to apply for LSE, Durham, York, Newcastle, Leeds, etc.