Limewire, Emule, Morpheus etc

[MadGamer]

I was having a discussion today with a small group of friends on the subject of filesharing, and downloading of music from the above mention sources in the title. Am i right in thinking that its ok to download these said files, as long as you dont set the program to share the folder that they are put in?

Now i take into account my mates view but he says that the downloading is wrong but the sharing of the files are ok. I say its the other way round. Anyway i said to this female member of the group as long as you set the sharing folder not to be shared and you dont let the program search your Hard Drive and also delete the sharing folder that you wont get caught.

Also am i right in thinking that its ok to download the said files, and keep for your own personal use, and as long as you dont sell them or share them with other users of the mentioned programs your not comitting any illegal offence?

[Ramrod]

As opposed to legal offences?

[AntiSilence]

No, it's not "ok" to download the files, whether you share/sell them or not. It's stealing either way. In the UK you are not legally allowed to copy a bought CD to a cassette (for example) and the same applies to downloading music.

However, it's more accepted that downloading a track or two will happen and they only tend to go after the prolific uploaders. But that doesn't mean you won't get caught. Your IP can be traced every time you're using a P2P application.

And don't forget those nice "h4x0r$" who like to disguise nasty files as MP3 and games, hoping sweet and innocent people will download them.

Having the software that allows file-sharing is legal - using it to download/upload files you don't own the copyright to, that is illegal.

[Wicked_and_Crazy]

Originally Posted by MadGamer

Anyway i said to this female member of the group as long as you set the sharing folder not to be shared and you dont let the program search your Hard Drive and also delete the sharing folder that you wont get caught.

The file you are downloading will automatically be shared

[SnoopZ]

No it's not ok. Try newsgroups if you wanna do stuff like that, don't use p2p.

[ADd]

I think you may have been refering to the info given here:
http://www.eff.org/IP/P2P/howto-notgetsued.php

Let me use an analogy. You go and buy a cd from 'cds r us' take it home, and play your cd. The cd has been purchased, and under the license you are allowed to play for home/personal use, and are allowed to make copies for your own use only. Secondly you see a film on tv, you tape with your VHS or DVD burner, but don't pay for it - now obviously one is illegal, and one isn't. The main reason because you have broken the agreement of the license, and the copyright law of the UK.
People have been taping films off the tv for years, and have not been taken to court - indeed I bet it one went into a majority of homes in the UK illegal copies of taped radio or films would be found. Basically file sharing is the same, if you share files (upload and download) you can be taken to court - indeed you could have been taken to court for taping from radio or the film off the tv. The problem for the record industry, is the scale of sharing, and how they are losing out financially. In addition your IP address is broadcast throughout the web, this is true of torrents also, you can be traced (after the authortities have attempted to get your personal info from the ISP). So in theory, yes you can be taken to court for one file, if you are breaking the license, and therefore copyright laws.

So if you don't want to get caught, don't break the law. There are licenses which allow you to share freely, one is called Creative commons:
http://creativecommons.org/

Here is my point, the government haven't taken any VHS or DVD recorder manufacturers to court, or think someone who taped last Thursday edition of Eastenders is **** of the Earth, but mention P2P...oh dear (wag finger) I hate the 'Holier than tho' attitude, I bet if you ask people they have never gone over the 30mph speed limit by 5mph (which according to gov ads can be the difference between life and death), but there you go (rant over )

I use both P2P and bit torrent technologies, and think they are excellent. Where else could I get my Linux distros so quickly (and legally), and grab online books (Project Gutenberg), and creative commons music so easily and quickly ?!? There are many unsigned bands who use the networks too, which the record industry won't give a lookin. I just wish the price of dowloading was reduced, I mean 70 odd pence for 1 track is ridiculous, that's 7 quid for a 10 track cd - which with DRM you can only transport to so many machines, and is far inferior to cd quality (because mp3 is compressed), and you get no artwork/cd case - nothing physical. Anyway I digress....

Finally these make interesting reading:
http://www.betanews.com/article/P2P_...ion/1134249644
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaSentry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediadefender

Even though I share legitimate music, I can still be scanned by the above agencies (and there are probably more), so I use a little program called PeerGuardian2, which is free and uses the info from blocklist.org to block known IP from unwanted intrusion. Obviously it is not perfect, but it does help

Im a strong advocate against p2p also purely for the reasoning that its not safe and you may get a pull ( and not a good one ) lowest possible profile is the best way everyday

[SnoopZ]

The safest way is currently newsgroups though, until something happens with them.

I agree

Originally Posted by ADd

I think you may have been refering to the info given here:
http://www.eff.org/IP/P2P/howto-notgetsued.php

Let me use an analogy. You go and buy a cd from 'cds r us' take it home, and play your cd. The cd has been purchased, and under the license you are allowed to play for home/personal use, and are allowed to make copies for your own use only. Secondly you see a film on tv, you tape with your VHS or DVD burner, but don't pay for it - now obviously one is illegal, and one isn't. The main reason because you have broken the agreement of the license, and the copyright law of the UK.
People have been taping films off the tv for years, and have not been taken to court - indeed I bet it one went into a majority of homes in the UK illegal copies of taped radio or films would be found. Basically file sharing is the same, if you share files (upload and download) you can be taken to court - indeed you could have been taken to court for taping from radio or the film off the tv. The problem for the record industry, is the scale of sharing, and how they are losing out financially. In addition your IP address is broadcast throughout the web, this is true of torrents also, you can be traced (after the authortities have attempted to get your personal info from the ISP). So in theory, yes you can be taken to court for one file, if you are breaking the license, and therefore copyright laws.

So if you don't want to get caught, don't break the law. There are licenses which allow you to share freely, one is called Creative commons:
http://creativecommons.org/

Here is my point, the government haven't taken any VHS or DVD recorder manufacturers to court, or think someone who taped last Thursday edition of Eastenders is **** of the Earth, but mention P2P...oh dear (wag finger) I hate the 'Holier than tho' attitude, I bet if you ask people they have never gone over the 30mph speed limit by 5mph (which according to gov ads can be the difference between life and death), but there you go (rant over )

I use both P2P and bit torrent technologies, and think they are excellent. Where else could I get my Linux distros so quickly (and legally), and grab online books (Project Gutenberg), and creative commons music so easily and quickly ?!? There are many unsigned bands who use the networks too, which the record industry won't give a lookin. I just wish the price of dowloading was reduced, I mean 70 odd pence for 1 track is ridiculous, that's 7 quid for a 10 track cd - which with DRM you can only transport to so many machines, and is far inferior to cd quality (because mp3 is compressed), and you get no artwork/cd case - nothing physical. Anyway I digress....

Finally these make interesting reading:
http://www.betanews.com/article/P2P_...ion/1134249644
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaSentry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediadefender

Even though I share legitimate music, I can still be scanned by the above agencies (and there are probably more), so I use a little program called PeerGuardian2, which is free and uses the info from blocklist.org to block known IP from unwanted intrusion. Obviously it is not perfect, but it does help

mmmmm.......

Your analogy falls down when you forget to mention that, after you taped the TV program for personal use, you then allowed as many people as wanted to, to come and make a copy - that is the difference between "taping at home" and p2p file-sharing - not quite the same thing.

[MadGamer]

Ok thanks people for the views.

---------- Post added at 19:10 ---------- Previous post was at 19:09 ----------

Originally Posted by Ramrod

As opposed to legal offences?

ok ok so i spelt it wrong.

[ADd]

Your analogy falls down when you forget to mention that, after you taped the TV program for personal use, you then allowed as many people as wanted to, to come and make a copy - that is the difference between "taping at home" and p2p file-sharing - not quite the same thing.

I'll admit I should have placed a 100,000,000,000 seater cinema in my analogy - with free dvd's given out at the end - however by the letter of the law both situations are illegal.

Originally Posted by ADd

I'll admit I should have placed a 100,000,000,000 seater cinema in my analogy - with free dvd's given out at the end - however by the letter of the law both situations are illegal.

Indeed, but the spirit of the law is important in this country also. The Copyright, Designs and Patents act is designed to ensure creative professionals - and nobody else - can earn money from their work. It's a necessary safeguard because by definition they can only earn anything by making the work copyable. The Act allows them to do this, but prevents you from doing it.

However, in recognition of the spirit of the law, nobody has ever been prosecuted - none that I know of, anyway, and certainly not successfully - for copying for personal use, such as making backups or recording Eastenders to watch later. The legal system recognises that while this is a technical breach of the law, the intent was not to do anything that the law sought to prevent.

And this aside, two wrongs do not make a right. Failure to prosecute in one instance does not set a precedent elsewhere. What you are doing is illegal, indefensible, and I guarantee, would land you with a sizeable fine if you ever get caught. And the 'if' is only more and more likely to become a 'when' as the industry gets more serious about clamping down on it.

[Wicked_and_Crazy]

Originally Posted by MadGamer

ok ok so i spelt it wrong.

Or maybe it was the point that there is no such thing as a legal offence

---------- Post added at 19:29 ---------- Previous post was at 19:27 ----------

Originally Posted by SnoopZ

No it's not ok. Try newsgroups if you wanna do stuff like that, don't use p2p.

its not ok to share via newsgroups either. If its not free and you didnt pay for it, its not yours