Why is music piracy so bad?

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by andygrif

I would agree that some copy protection methods are somewhat of a white elephant, however I have never found a copy protected CD that I cannot play in my PC, without resorting to programs designed to bypass the protection.

It was a knee-jerk reaction by the industry to try and deter casual copiers - but you will find that the next generation of music formats will include protection that will allow you play your music on all devices, but will attempt to prevent digital mass piracy.

I think the problem with any copy protection is that inconveniances legitimate users of the music, software or whatever while somebody who copies stuff to sell will often just find a way round it. For example, anyone remember the games where when you first ran the game, you were asked to enter a certain word (so the game would ask you to go to page 151 of the manual, and enter the fourth word on the third line).

I personally consider any CD that won't run on a PC (or Mac) or asks for software to be installed before you play it (even if it doesn't actually need the software) to be an incoveniance, unless that software is some sort of multimedia content (pictures or video).

Originally Posted by scastle

I think the problem with any copy protection is that inconveniances legitimate users of the music, software or whatever while somebody who copies stuff to sell will often just find a way round it. For example, anyone remember the games where when you first ran the game, you were asked to enter a certain word (so the game would ask you to go to page 151 of the manual, and enter the fourth word on the third line).

I personally consider any CD that won't run on a PC (or Mac) or asks for software to be installed before you play it (even if it doesn't actually need the software) to be an incoveniance, unless that software is some sort of multimedia content (pictures or video).

You have a point there, just look at the starforce protection, it looks liek it does more harm than good and it allegedly spyware also!!!!
To play the game you have to install it, you do not have any choice.

[sherer]

what about bootlegs... you can't officially buy these and so you the only choice is to download them. if i could buy them from EMI etc then i would as i want a proper CD in the non loss less format..

what about artists i've discovered through downloading and then bouhgt their album.. without the internet and P2Ps i woulld never have bought these CDs..but i'll admit it doesn't happen for all stuff i download..

what about the fact that now the record companies want to stop be ripping a CD i have purchased to put onto my PC \ ipod \ mp3 player etc to listen to when i may already have the vinyl, tape , CD and 20th anniversary CD with one new photo or old track added

Originally Posted by andygrif

<snip> The question you must ask yourself when downloading illegally is: would I want someone to steal something of mine that I worked hard for, was proud of and was available for sale?

An excellent post overall!

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by sherer

what about bootlegs... you can't officially buy these and so you the only choice is to download them. if i could buy them from EMI etc then i would as i want a proper CD in the non loss less format..

what about artists i've discovered through downloading and then bouhgt their album.. without the internet and P2Ps i woulld never have bought these CDs..but i'll admit it doesn't happen for all stuff i download..

what about the fact that now the record companies want to stop be ripping a CD i have purchased to put onto my PC \ ipod \ mp3 player etc to listen to when i may already have the vinyl, tape , CD and 20th anniversary CD with one new photo or old track added

What would you think if you were a professional photographer and made a living out of wedding photography and you only sold one copy of each photograph because your clients were copying the one sold for friends and relations? I bet you would be mad as hell and looking for some way of stopping them doing it.

Theft is theft and there is no justification for it however much you think there is.

[sherer]

Originally Posted by ianathuth

What would you think if you were a professional photographer and made a living out of wedding photography and you only sold one copy of each photograph because your clients were copying the one sold for friends and relations? I bet you would be mad as hell and looking for some way of stopping them doing it.

Theft is theft and there is no justification for it however much you think there is.

suppose after that had bought it i said it's now available on different paper and in a different size with higher quality and made them pay be again for a photo.. suppose then after a few years i issued a 5 year anniversary edition that was exactly the same but had a tiny bit of gold leaf on it

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by paulyoung666

even if they do succesfully copy protect a cd then all you need is a normal player and line out or digital out and a soundcard , i cant see em ever getting around it

Everyone knows how it can be done, but it's a little like security on your car. You have the locks, steering lock, immobiliser, alarm and maybe some other features - every one is designed to make it that little bit more difficult for someone to run off with your car - but if someone is determined enough and has the time they will still do it.

Originally Posted by sherer

what about bootlegs... you can't officially buy these and so you the only choice is to download them. if i could buy them from EMI etc then i would as i want a proper CD in the non loss less format..

Bootlegs are just that - bootlegs - they are tracks that have been recorded without the permission of the copyright holders and often sold at a profit to the seller - meaning that the people who should be getting paid are not.

Originally Posted by sherer

what about artists i've discovered through downloading and then bouhgt their album.. without the internet and P2Ps i woulld never have bought these CDs..but i'll admit it doesn't happen for all stuff i download..

A week argument in my opinion. You can 'discover' far more diverse artists and recordings through the Amazon website than you can through something like Kazaa - the reason being that Amazon suggests artists you might like based on your browsing and buying habits - wheras with Kazaa you are searching for something specifc. Granted if you searched for an artist you knew and found some tracks you liked but didn't own you might go and buy the album they were from - but again you could do the same search on Amazon, hear preview clips and decide to buy it without denying the artist you like of what is due to them.

Originally Posted by sherer

what about the fact that now the record companies want to stop be ripping a CD i have purchased to put onto my PC \ ipod \ mp3 player etc to listen to when i may already have the vinyl, tape , CD and 20th anniversary CD with one new photo or old track added

If the release is that similar to the one you already own, why buy another copy? Such releases are a marketing exercise to try and tempt the people who don't already own the album to buy it.

Originally Posted by sherer

suppose after that had bought it i said it's now available on different paper and in a different size with higher quality and made them pay be again for a photo.. suppose then after a few years i issued a 5 year anniversary edition that was exactly the same but had a tiny bit of gold leaf on it

Again, why would you want to own something that was so much like what you already had?

To be brutal here, it sounds to me that you are trying to justify reasons why it's OK to steal someone's copyright. Imagine someone found a bit of paper on which you'd drawn a picture at school (unlikely I know, but work with me on this).

This person decided that your drawing was worth money, so put it into print on thousands of posters. Now when you found that someone else was making money out of your work, you'd be pretty miffed right? This is exactly the case with music piracy - you're copying someone's work, sharing it with others, and someone is making money out of it.

[nffc]

On second thoughts, the companies don't exactly think of the consumer in terms of deletions do they?

[paulyoung666]

Originally Posted by nffc

On second thoughts, the companies don't exactly think of the consumer in terms of deletions do they?

so they should keep every album available for ever more then , i dont think so somehow , it would be like vauxhall still making parts for a viva , totally out of the question

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by andygrif

A week argument in my opinion. You can 'discover' far more diverse artists and recordings through the Amazon website than you can through something like Kazaa - the reason being that Amazon suggests artists you might like based on your browsing and buying habits - wheras with Kazaa you are searching for something specifc. Granted if you searched for an artist you knew and found some tracks you liked but didn't own you might go and buy the album they were from - but again you could do the same search on Amazon, hear preview clips and decide to buy it without denying the artist you like of what is due to them.

Actually, kazza etc have been shown to help boost the sales of CD's in many cases.
The majority of people who use P2P are not the sort of people who will go out and buy CD's anyway.
The money assumed to be lost through P2P assumes that every download is a lost sale, when the majority are no-sales.

Some economists did indepth research into this, and came to the conclusion that if you assume every download is a lost sale, then a $6 a month tax on broadband connections in the US would cover this.
They also pointed out that the downturn in CD sales started to occur long before Napster ever came about.

Now, if we are correct in thinking that buying pirated CD's and DVD's from your local market helps fund terroism/prostitution/drugs smuggling (course other than terrorism, those are self financing industries) then using kazaa and downloading for free actually helps in the fight against those things by denying them funds

[nffc]

Originally Posted by paulyoung666

so they should keep every album available for ever more then , i dont think so somehow , it would be like vauxhall still making parts for a viva , totally out of the question

I'm talking about non-mainstream music- obviously it would be silly to have trash songs kept for posterity.

However other music where the same music is open to different interpretations eg classical it's nice to have different recordings available...

I do like *different* kinds of music and don't mind as long as it's listenable.

I MIGHT download a song that I can no longer buy anywhere either by ordering or looking through boot sales or from any other source,but not newer recordings.However that would be the only occasion that I would consider it .If however I can get a legit copy I would prefer to do so.

Mind the number of songs/albums that relates to is entirely minute in number.Though that list is increasing year by year as I attain the status of old biddy(thanks to kronas )

[Xaccers]

There are also a lot of albums you can't get in this country that are extremely difficult to get imported too.

Bone to pick by the Gone Jackels for instance (saught after by anyone who's played Full Throttle )

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Actually, kazza etc have been shown to help boost the sales of CD's in many cases.
The majority of people who use P2P are not the sort of people who will go out and buy CD's anyway.

Isn't the second line contradicting the first line?

Even if not, it is still not right to download music without the copyright holders receiving what is due to them.

There are very few legitimate reasons for downloading music illegally - but I am amused by people keeping on trying to justify their actions!

[kronas]

Originally Posted by andygrif

There are very few legitimate reasons for downloading music illegally - but I am amused by people keeping on trying to justify their actions!

ok so if you had it your way i would not be able to download a track... ok in that case every CD i just bought over the past few months (with the exception of one) can all go back, and yes im buying no more CD's or using any legitimate means im not prepared to waste money on something that MAY turn out to be utter tosh!

you hear one song on some albums the rest can be drivel, i want to hear the rest before making a purchase.