why are black people underachievers ?

[Mr_love_monkey]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

Bill's underlying question still remains and he's not getting an answer.Perhaps he should ask the question again but in a more temperate manner.

Yes, his question, though valid, was asked incredibly badly - you don't ask why certain members of groups are underachievers, by saying everyone in the whole group are underachievers - all that happens is you get a knee jerk reaction, and no one actually properly listens to what the actual question is, and they spend their time saying that question is wrong, rather than trying to give an answer

[Ramrod]

imo you only have to look at the role models that young black men have......rapping wannabee drug dealers/hard men types. If that is what popular culture is pushing onto impressionable young men then it's little wonder they aren't applying themselves at school....it's uncool to apply themselves .
I won't even start on poor schools etc.......

[kronas]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

imo you only have to look at the role models that young black men have......rapping wannabee drug dealers/hard men types. If that is what popular culture is pushing onto impressionable young men then it's little wonder they aren't applying themselves at school....it's uncool to apply themselves .
I won't even start on poor schools etc.......

your very true to what your saying, music is too influential to some people, the rap culture is something which black people relate to but lyrics screaming of guns drugs and violence are not easily given up by the young impressionable generation, i dont think every young black person does not want a decent education, i know black people who like rap but want to achieve academically, although there are those who simply want the highest GCSE's they can get if not then try to get a job, i think it varies a little, but i think 'in the hoods' its a diffarent story....

[TigaSefi]

Gang crews "in da hoods" makes life difficult no ? with questions of loyalty to your "gang" rather than just getting on with education and making a life for yourself. Also I think the way they dress themselves can be very threatening and intimidating to other ppl that they'd find it difficult to succeed in job interviews and the likes.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

imo you only have to look at the role models that young black men have......rapping wannabee drug dealers/hard men types. If that is what popular culture is pushing onto impressionable young men then it's little wonder they aren't applying themselves at school....it's uncool to apply themselves .
I won't even start on poor schools etc.......

The problem as far as I see it is that black youth culture does not value education.

[kronas]

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

The problem as far as I see it is that black youth culture does not value education.

i think you might be right there, but the enviromental factor plays a pivotal role here i think, in my view the strictness and the allowance of time to do things which are outside of education ie freinds, spare time, non educational activitys, are also a contributing factors, the sense that rap is the only thing to blame i think is looking at it from an incorrect perspective, other factors do contribute to the 'disinterest' found.

Originally Posted by kronas

i think you might be right there, but the enviromental factor plays a pivotal role here i think, in my view the strictness and the allowance of time to do things which are outside of education ie freinds, spare time, non educational activitys, are also a contributing factors, the sense that rap is the only thing to blame i think is looking at it from an incorrect perspective, other factors do contribute to the 'disinterest' found.

You cant go blaming rap music, in the 80's American parents could send their children to be de-heavy metalised. Thuis was a strict regime more akin to torture than anything else. But look now, you will find a lot of high flying people listen to Rock and heavy metal.

I also blame parents, no hoper parents that can barely read or write (incidently the same type of parents that in the UK give their children stupid names) are not great role models, how can they help their children develop?

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by kronas

, the sense that rap is the only thing to blame i think is looking at it from an incorrect perspective, other factors do contribute to the 'disinterest' found.

Of course rap isn't the only thing to blame but it is probably a big part of it. It can't be good to idolise the whole 'gangsta' lifestyle thing/portray it as cool or desirable.

[kronas]

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

I also blame parents, no hoper parents that can barely read or write (incidently the same type of parents that in the UK give their children stupid names) are not great role models, how can they help their children develop?

i dont think you should put the blame on strange names being given to children, diffarent cultures have their own naming structures, whats alien to you and me is the norm for them and vice versa.

parental upbringing is a valuble asset, although only part of the process, if you have it in a positive and influential collective then you automatically have a head start, but its outside of that what is worrying its how the individual can control themselves, the concentration of being able to shun the typical culture of alcohol, drugs, music, teenage misbehviour that continues in to adulthood and beyond.....

there are plenty of things that can sway you on to a wrong path but a number of factors contribute to that.

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Of course rap isn't the only thing to blame but it is probably a big part of it. It can't be good to idolise the whole 'gangsta' lifestyle thing/portray it as cool or desirable.

exactly as per my reply to TW's post its valid for a reply to your post aswell.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

imo you only have to look at the role models that young black men have......rapping wannabee drug dealers/hard men types. If that is what popular culture is pushing onto impressionable young men then it's little wonder they aren't applying themselves at school....it's uncool to apply themselves .
I won't even start on poor schools etc.......

I had a black jamaican girlfriend a few years ago, and she was telling me about being in a club in London with her sisters. Apparently a black guy was chatting to her younger sister, and the oldest sister said "What are you bothering with him for go and find some nice white guy to talk too"

I had this sort of thing confirmed by a black guy who told me to stay away from black women. He said "I'm safe from them, they dont know if I have a british passport and they assume I am poor, it's you white guys who need to be carefull" He said 'never trust a black woman" !

I am not trying to go off the point of the thread, but I suppose I am saying it is the stereotypical view that black people are poor, un-educated and bad news. I know this is not true but it also shows that the good black people think the same. My mad South African girlfriend was once complaining about Quote "The blacks being lazy in South Africa" It made me laugh because she was black as the ace of spades herself.

I think it just goes to show there are good and bad in all, its just a pity that the UK gets more than its share of bad.

PS: Please dont flame me for the above, I am only repeating what was said to me.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Escapee

My mad South African girlfriend was once complaining about Quote "The blacks being lazy in South Africa" It made me laugh because she was black as the ace of spades herself.

Thats true, most of them there are lazy if they aren't constantly supervised.......and don't flame me either......thats from personal experience.

[TigaSefi]

And Ron Atkinson got fired and lambasted for saying the same thing

[zovat]

I have a number of black friends, and they tend to say the same thing : there are too many of their family and friend who think that the "Gangsta" life if the way to go, they never encourage their kids to work hard at school "why bother - you'll never get a job- you're black" with the parents effectively forcing their kids to believe that this world is essentially racist, they actually create a self fulfilling prophecy.
Their kids will never get a job - not because they are black, but because they have no education. It then becomes self perpetuating.

The whole "gangsta" thing appeals because it makes it cool to be uneducated, and to swear, and be in trouble with the law - all the things that society frown upon.

If you believe that society is against you then you are more likely to rail against that society in a way that seems to be acceptable, even laudable to your peers. Especially if that action brings you not only "kudos" but financial gains and all the trappings that traditionally go with it.

As ever, this is my opinion - feel free to disagree with it. :angel

[BBKing]

most of them there are lazy if they aren't constantly supervised

That Nelson Mandela never gets off his arse, does he?

Remove the word 'black' from the whole palaver and it comes down to a rich middle aged man complaining about what a let down the Youth of Today are. This has been said by every older generation about every younger generation since Before the Dawna Time.

As for language, the great thing about English is that it's constantly evolving (as opposed to, say, French). There's nothing better or worse about black street slang than any other English dialect. It's not the words you use so much as what you're saying with them, and there are plenty of interesting things being said.

Rap and hip-hop have a bad reputation because people can easily pick out parts of songs that glorify violence, drugs, guns, money, objectify women or use bad language, and miss the bits that say 'stand up for yourself', 'get an education', 'respect people'. This is demonisation and close to outright racism.

You don't, unless you're Mary Whitehouse or mad (same thing, really) condemn rock and roll on the basis of lines like:

'Out of the doorway/The bullets rip/Another one bites the dust'
'The squirminââ‚à ƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢ dog whoââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s just had her day/Under my thumb/A girl who has just changed her ways'
'Clearly I remember pickinââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢ on the boy/Seemed a harmless little f!ck'
'Turn off your mind, relax and float downstream'
''Who the f!ck do you think you are/Get out of my hair/who the f!ck do you think you are/Comin' round here'
'So you can make me *** that doesn't make you Jesus'
'C!ck-sucker Tammy get your mother f!ckin' dammy/We're goin' downtown to the C!ck-Suckers' Ball/F!ck, suck an' fight/'Till beginnin' of the broad daylight'

Polo mint to first person to name the songs and writers...

Edit - 'song' should have been plural - apologies. It isn't just one song, would be rather a fun listen though.