[Merged] The Europe Thread

Originally Posted by Macca371

Hmm, I dunno, some of those countries have huge problems. I think helping them through their problems is great. I know we have our own problems but a lot of people in these countries live in poverty, and in comparison, the money would be spent on us for luxury items, not essential ones.

What, you mean luxuries like a national health service that lets you get your operation before you die and a transport infrastructure that allows you to get where you need to be without sitting in a 60-minute traffic jam every day of the week? £2 billion may be a small amount of our overall budget but it is still a very large amount of money indeed.

As far as general arguments for European integration go, stopping wars might well have been a worthy aim 50 years ago but this has little relevance to today's situation. Nuclear missiles managed to prevent a war with a country that was highly motivated to invade us - the USSR - so the fact that both the UK and France still have nukes would be more than adequate to stop any war between the major European powers, even if there was the merest hint of a motivation to go to war, which of course there isn't. Don't forget the role of NATO in keeping the peace also.

No, I'm afraid 'preventing war' is just another one of those 'integration is inevitable because the alternative is unthinkable' arguments that seeks to scare people into closer integration, conveniently removing the need to prove positive benefits.

Anyway, to return to the original question - the rebate is ours to keep because we have a veto on the EU budget. (Something else we would lose if certain Europhile politicins had their way). It's becoming an issue because the Eurocrats are beginning to realise that Poland and the other countries that have just joined the club are likely to prove to be a bottomless financial pit, and France is not prepared to consider the single biggest scandal in the entire EU budget - the so-called Common Agricultural Policy - because it is bankrolling that country's entire, inefficient peasant farming industry.

[Pierre]

The more integration the better, and the less chance of another European war

What the hell has that got to do with it.

[iadom]

This was mentioned in post #130 in the merged Euro thread.
Now you can exercise your powers Chris and merge this one as well.

BTW, how do you spell politicians.

Originally Posted by Macca371

Hmm, I dunno, some of those countries have huge problems. I think helping them through their problems is great. I know we have our own problems but a lot of people in these countries live in poverty, and in comparison, the money would be spent on us for luxury items, not essential ones.

Hey I'm all for improving the lot of the less fortinuate in the world. But I do take exception at having to support everyone else, while getting less back. Macca, if you want to subsidise Polish farmers, go work in Poland and pay the Polish government some tax. I already pay enough tax for the British government to p!$$ away thanks very much.

Originally Posted by iadom

This was mentioned in post #130 in the merged Euro thread.
Now you can exercise your powers Chris and merge this one as well.

BTW, how do you spell politicians.

Wow, it worked! Thread merged.

Clearly I'm better at using the thread tools than I am at spelling.

Originally Posted by Pierre

What the hell has that got to do with it.

Quite a lot actually

[kronas]

Originally Posted by Macca371

Quite a lot actually

countries will hate each other regardless of currencys or constitutions.....

Originally Posted by kronas

countries will hate each other regardless of currencys or constitutions.....

The EU has open borders, with no passport control or whatever, and more people now move around Europe than ever before, improving relations between all the countries.

Everywhere around the EU you see the flag, I even saw it on an advert the other day. It is also outside hotels, town halls, whatever.

Subtle changes like this make a huge difference.

Also, if we do eventually give control of our military to brussels, and other countries do, then there will be no danger of us being attacked from these countries.

[kronas]

Originally Posted by Macca371

The EU has open borders, with no passport control or whatever

you mean your passports are not checked ? also by them doing that immigrants are coming through the system in to this country...

Originally Posted by Macca371

and more people now move around Europe than ever before, improving relations between all the countries.

people do that to meet loved ones, go on holiday, just go on a trip in general, nothings stopping that...

Originally Posted by Macca371

Everywhere around the EU you see the flag, I even saw it on an advert the other day. It is also outside hotels, town halls, whatever.

the eu flag ? not around here, as for the adverts they normally promote european destinations......

Subtle changes like this make a huge difference.

Originally Posted by Macca371

Also, if we do eventually give control of our military to brussels, and other countries do, then there will be no danger of us being attacked from these countries.

im sorry but military related issues should be sovereign to the country it belongs to, ie the british military is in british control!

[kronas]

Originally Posted by Macca371

The EU has open borders, with no passport control or whatever

you mean your passports are not checked ? also by them doing that immigrants are coming through the system in to this country...

Originally Posted by Macca371

and more people now move around Europe than ever before, improving relations between all the countries.

people do that to meet loved ones, go on holiday, just go on a trip in general, nothings stopping that...

Originally Posted by Macca371

Everywhere around the EU you see the flag, I even saw it on an advert the other day. It is also outside hotels, town halls, whatever.

the eu flag ? not around here, as for the adverts they normally promote european destinations......

Originally Posted by Macca371

Subtle changes like this make a huge difference.

politics is politics.

Originally Posted by Macca371

Also, if we do eventually give control of our military to brussels, and other countries do, then there will be no danger of us being attacked from these countries.

im sorry but military related issues should be sovereign to the country it belongs to, ie the british military is in british control!

people do that to meet loved ones, go on holiday, just go on a trip in general, nothings stopping that...

Exactly. And by travelling, they are meeting people, getting to know places, etc...

the eu flag ? not around here, as for the adverts they normally promote european destinations......

Subtle changes like this make a huge difference.

Well here, the EU flag is almost everywhere. Look at my town website: www.heywood.org.uk
And yesterday I saw an EU anti-smoking advert

im sorry but military related issues should be sovereign to the country it belongs to, ie the british military is in british control!

Yes, the military is what makes a country seperate from another. At that stage, the EU stops becoming a union and starts becoming a superstate. To me, I'm not bothered. I don't know how people can be 'proud' of their country. They just happened to be born in a place which people called 'Britain'. Nothing to be proud about, if anything, the British Empire stands for cruelty and slavery. I really don't mind who governs me, as long as I have my freedom.

[iadom]

Originally Posted by Macca371

Well here, the EU flag is almost everywhere. Look at my town website: www.heywood.org.uk

Not round here it ain't. I often wondered why Heywood was known as "Monkeytown" in this area.

Originally Posted by iadom

Not round here it ain't. I often wondered why Heywood was known as "Monkeytown" in this area.

I bet there are more than you imagine. Keep an eye out for them.

As for Heywood well I think it lives up to the name 'monkey town'. Nowhere else do all the grown adults not even look whilst crossing the road.

[iadom]

Originally Posted by Macca371

I bet there are more than you imagine. Keep an eye out for them.

As for Heywood well I think it lives up to the name 'monkey town'. Nowhere else do all the grown adults not even look whilst crossing the road.

I actual fact, I have been a service engineer for over 35 years, driving all round the Greater Manchester area, including Heywood. So I say again, no there are not large numbers of Euro flags flown around here, plenty of the red cross of St George though.

I was born in Rochdale and my grandfather always told me that all the barstools in Heywood had holes in them so the monkeys could put their tails through, you also had to be careful when closing doors in Heywood in case you trapped a tail in the door.

[iadom]

An interesting article here . do you really want closer ties with these 'crooks'

And it was ex Labour luvvie, Kinnoch who sacked the woman who exposed the frauds.