arggh! Scart-hell!

[peck]

Its a slightly off-topic but please can someone guide me through a mine-field of 'scart'? I've got all the gear and got all the cables and switchers but, oh dear, I just can't find a sensible way of getting it all together?!

I have...

• Pace NTL STB with 2 scarts (1 to VCR and 1 to TV)
• Yamada DVR-8000 DVD recorder with 2 scarts (1 as input and 1 to TV)
• Matsui VCR with 1 scart
• and a feed coming over S-VHS coming from the PC.
• 2 Argos '4 way scart switchers'
• a TV with 1 Scart input.
• RF feed available to upstairs
• a box, a carrier bag and another box full of scart cables!

There are some things that I have to achieve from this setup....
1. Be able to watch via RF upstairs (The VCR is working as an 'RF modulator' to get signal from DVD recorder to upstairs. (Yamada doesn't send any signal of its own over RF - its just a pass-thru))
2. Need to be able to copy from VHS to DVD recorder.
3. To be able to record NTL STB to DVD recorder (and, ideally, VCR)

How on earth can I get this lot plumbed together into a use-able system???

I also have a Yamaha DSP-A592 amp that has a whole load of S-VHS switching available but I've, to date, avoided that route as I want to, ummm, "keep it simple!"

Any advice, guidance, comforting words or hints and tips would be really welcomed!

Peck!

[dragon]

err
Play around with it untill you find something that works thats what i did!

maybe connect the 2 swtich boxes together?

do they have a button to swtich connections to more than one output

e.g i have one that has connectors for

A B C TV

And i can do
a > tv, b > tv, c> tv like normall

but then i have a button for

C > A and B > A so i would plug the VCR in A

I also had a lead which had a scart plug on one end and 6 phono connections on the other its really usefull

as i put the scart connector in the vcr then put the 3 photos for input into the dvd players output and the the 3 photos output into the scart switchbox now as long as my vcr is on i can watch dvds without fiddleing with wires.

as the signal goes dvd > vcr av1 > tv though the same scartplug

(cus scart has both in/out pins and this cable uses them all)

Hope i made some sence there and if it helped at all.


EDIT

if they cant do this 'resend' funcution id prob plug one into the vcr and connect the dvds output and the stb output (allowing u to watch them though rf)

id then probbaly use the other scart on the ntl stb for the dvd recorders input that would allow u to record digi tv.

problem there is no connection to tv so youd have to use vcr for RF to watch tv so not ideal

[Tristan]

Altis, we require thee...

For some reason it really riles me when people incorrectly call the interconnect S VHS.
Its S video, I don't know why it gets to me, but for some reason it does?
S VHS is a recording format, S Video is the interconnect, same principle.

[altis]

Originally Posted by Tristan

Altis, we require thee...

LOL - what it is to be famous! (Anyway guys, please feel free to use my pix if required - despite what Mrs A thinks, I'm not always around here).

Back on topic, blimey peck you've posed a problem! As you've discovered for yourself, 'scart' can be a bit of a bugger - roll on DVB-IP!

Let's take it one stage at a time and, since I already have a drawing, we'll start with that:

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

If you want to, you can ignore the FM connection and the audio hookup to the hi-fi. Replace what I've labelled as 'Main VCR' with your DVD recorder.

You will probably be worrying about the big box labelled 'Distribution Amp'. If you can afford another £20-£30 then get one (click on the picture for my recommendation). You can manage without it but you will lose the ability to watch a terrestrial channel while recording simultaneously something else from the STB. If this is not a problem then just wire from the RF output to your remote TV.

Get all this connected up and working first. Make sure all the possible combinations work correctly - there are many to test.

When that is up and running I suggest you try to add the VCR by connecting it to the other scart on the DVD recorder. With luck, and a following wind, when you play a tape all the other equipment will switch over and you'll see it on the TV (possibly both of them).

If you get that far then you'll want to add the S-video from the PC. Does the scart switch have an S-video input? If so then you could try slipping that in between the STB and the TV and use that to switch between everything else and the S-video.

I hope all that makes sense. Let me know if it doesn't.

[peck]

Oh my goodness! What can I say everyone! Thank you! Thank you!
I'm going to follow the suggestions step by step tonight and see what happens. It all looks so logical when you guys present it like that!

Thanks again and I'll let you know how I get on!

Have a great holiday everyone!

Peck

[peck]

OK - I think I'm getting some progress thanks to all your guidance. I'm also aware this is turning into a real off topic so, if someone can suggest another forum, please feel free to let me know.

Two more questions though...then I'll be outta here (unless I can help someone else with some other subject!)
1. I am not able to see the DVD recorder via RF on the other TV. (Unfortunately the DVD recorder doesn't output its signal via RF (it only has RF pass thru) so I was hoping to be able to use the VCR as a kind of modulator to get that DVD signal upstairs). Is that possible or what else do I need?

2. When I follow your great diagram Altis I'm getting really bad recording on the DVD recorder via scart. It goes all B&W with greeny bars. The scart itself on the DVD recorder is fine because I tried my dv camera into it and that looked great. Problem only seems to be apparent from VCR in that particular configuration. VCR scart to TV works fine too so I don't think its a broken cable. Could it just be crosstalk or is there another way?

Any more ideas would truely be welcomed! (and hey, its a good job I decided to keep the Dreamcast and the PS2 out of the system!)

Thanks everyone for any thoughts!

Peck

[MovedGoalPosts]

Originally Posted by peck

OK - I think I'm getting some progress thanks to all your guidance. I'm also aware this is turning into a real off topic so, if someone can suggest another forum, please feel free to let me know.

Two more questions though...then I'll be outta here (unless I can help someone else with some other subject!)

Hey, no need to disappear, just lurk around a bit and feel free to pop in when you feel you have something to contribute. Most of us wont bite

1. I am not able to see the DVD recorder via RF on the other TV. (Unfortunately the DVD recorder doesn't output its signal via RF (it only has RF pass thru) so I was hoping to be able to use the VCR as a kind of modulator to get that DVD signal upstairs). Is that possible or what else do I need? <snip>

Difficult one but you may be able to tune your VCR to the DVD's incoming scart channel (my VCR would treat that as E1 or E2). That you may find can be transmitted to the coaxial out if you tune your upstairs TV to the downstairs VCR.

Alternatively, buy yourself a cheapo DVD for upstairs from your local Tesco / ASDA / bargain bucket store.

Originally Posted by peck

OK - I think I'm getting some progress thanks to all your guidance. I'm also aware this is turning into a real off topic so, if someone can suggest another forum, please feel free to let me know.

Two more questions though...then I'll be outta here (unless I can help someone else with some other subject!)
1. I am not able to see the DVD recorder via RF on the other TV. (Unfortunately the DVD recorder doesn't output its signal via RF (it only has RF pass thru) so I was hoping to be able to use the VCR as a kind of modulator to get that DVD signal upstairs). Is that possible or what else do I need?

2. When I follow your great diagram Altis I'm getting really bad recording on the DVD recorder via scart. It goes all B&W with greeny bars. The scart itself on the DVD recorder is fine because I tried my dv camera into it and that looked great. Problem only seems to be apparent from VCR in that particular configuration. VCR scart to TV works fine too so I don't think its a broken cable. Could it just be crosstalk or is there another way?

Any more ideas would truely be welcomed! (and hey, its a good job I decided to keep the Dreamcast and the PS2 out of the system!)

Thanks everyone for any thoughts!

Peck

altis's diagrams are great, aren't they

re: your problem 2, that sounds like macrovision - i.e. copyright protection

[dragon]

Originally Posted by peck

2. When I follow your great diagram Altis I'm getting really bad recording on the DVD recorder via scart. It goes all B&W with greeny bars. The scart itself on the DVD recorder is fine because I tried my dv camera into it and that looked great. Problem only seems to be apparent from VCR in that particular configuration. VCR scart to TV works fine too so I don't think its a broken cable. Could it just be crosstalk or is there another way?

check the connections, swap the cable for one you know to be good (just to test)

what where you trying to record to the dvd maybe it was marcrovision protected although i think they only do that for 'front row' movies

maybe try turning the vcr off and then record from the ntl box or somit?

maybe hook the second output from the ntl box direct to the dvd recorder in?


also you might want to look into a cheap dvd player for upstairs you can get them for around £30 in some places and there are plenty about for under £50

[altis]

You keep firing away peck. If we can spend pages discussing Avril then we can certainly spare one or two for this topic

I can't find much info on your DVD recorder - only this press release:
http://www.umax.co.uk/WebNew_UK/Pres...VR-8000_UK.pdf
... which doesn't reveal much!

Let's put your problem 1 to the side for the moment as there are a number of solutions. I'll come back to this once we sort problem 2: 'goes all b&w with greeny bars'.

It could be any of the solutions listed above. To test out the Macrovision idea you could try recording something ordinary, like the news, from BBC1. Unless I'm mistaken, this won't have any Macrovision protection. If you still have probs then it must be something else and my money would be on the configuration of the two scart sockets connecting the STB with the DVD recorder. Each scart can carry 3 different types of video signal: RGB, composite and S-video. Unfortunately, S-video was a late addition to the party and so it shares pins with composite video and the red component of RGB. For more details check out the following AV FAQs page ('scart pinout' is a long way down the LHS):
http://www.bnoack.de/

I have a suspicion that the STB is pumping out composite and RGB whilst the DVD recorder thinks it is looking at S-video. You'll need to hunt through the manuals and then flick through the configuration pages to make sure that they are sending and receiving in the same format. For the best signal choose RGB. If one or other doesn't support this then try S-video and finally composite.

If that doesn't solve it then we need to determine if it's the recording or the playback process is going awry. Can you try playing a recording in a different player? Alternatively, try rewiring the scart leads temporarily so that the DVD recorder is connected directly to the TV. Do you still see the aberations?

Originally Posted by altis

You keep firing away peck. If we can spend pages discussing Avril then we can certainly spare one or two for this topic

I can't find much info on your DVD recorder - only this press release:
http://www.umax.co.uk/WebNew_UK/Pres...VR-8000_UK.pdf
... which doesn't reveal much!

Let's put your problem 1 to the side for the moment as there are a number of solutions. I'll come back to this once we sort problem 2: 'goes all b&w with greeny bars'.

It could be any of the solutions listed above. To test out the Macrovision idea you could try recording something ordinary, like the news, from BBC1. Unless I'm mistaken, this won't have any Macrovision protection. If you still have probs then it must be something else and my money would be on the configuration of the two scart sockets connecting the STB with the DVD recorder. Each scart can carry 3 different types of video signal: RGB, composite and S-video. Unfortunately, S-video was a late addition to the party and so it shares pins with composite video and the red component of RGB. For more details check out the following AV FAQs page ('scart pinout' is a long way down the LHS):
http://www.bnoack.de/

I have a suspicion that the STB is pumping out composite and RGB whilst the DVD recorder thinks it is looking at S-video. You'll need to hunt through the manuals and then flick through the configuration pages to make sure that they are sending and receiving in the same format. For the best signal choose RGB. If one or other doesn't support this then try S-video and finally composite.

If that doesn't solve it then we need to determine if it's the recording or the playback process is going awry. Can you try playing a recording in a different player? Alternatively, try rewiring the scart leads temporarily so that the DVD recorder is connected directly to the TV. Do you still see the aberations?

I'd say its almost 100percent its macrovision from the STB causing the issue. And I think its most likely causing an issue for the VCR rather than the DVD recorder. To see if this is the case then take the scart going to the DVD recorder from the VCR and plug it into the TV instead and see what the pics are like.

If the DVD recorder was expecting S video then I'd expect the recordings to be more black and white than flashing green and red. The composite feed to it would provide its luma and it would have no chroma feed.

Altis is right tho, channels like BBC1 should have no Macrovision at all.

[peck]

Guys,

Firstly I am embarrassed by your hospitality and support!

Based on your advice I too have focused on the macrovision issue first and have come out with some interesting observations that I'd like to bounce by you first!
(then I'd love to move on to question 2).

(So, to set the scene and as a little reminder....
I am simply scart out of VCR to scart in on DVD recorder and rf cables chained as per Altis diagram)

If I simply watch or record the realtime tv channels from the VCR through the scart in on the DVD recorder then the picture is great. No macrovision problem. BBC1 coming into the VCR rf tuner passed to the VCR scart to the scart in on DVD recorder is fine.

If however I record BBC1 to VHS then play that VHS back the picture appears to have macrovision issue. All my tapes have the same problem including some I made decades ago although some start ok and then it gradually 'macrovisions out' after a few minutes. I can only conclude therefore (and please tell me if I'm wrong) that the Matsui VCR is just sticking macrovision on anything it plays back. Would that be logical?

So, following a few site searches I am seeing stuff about "video picture stabilizers". Would this do the job or am I just a stupid gadget junkie with no respect for my electric bill! and has anyone got any advice or a recommended product to overcome this problem? (Unless anyone happens to know a hack or have a flash update for an old matsui vcr! joke!)

So, postponing on question 2 for the mo, any macrovision advice or a recommendation for an alternative vcr without this problem would be really welcomed!

Thanks as always!

peck

Originally Posted by peck

Guys,

Firstly I am embarrassed by your hospitality and support!

Based on your advice I too have focused on the macrovision issue first and have come out with some interesting observations that I'd like to bounce by you first!
(then I'd love to move on to question 2).

(So, to set the scene and as a little reminder....
I am simply scart out of VCR to scart in on DVD recorder and rf cables chained as per Altis diagram)

If I simply watch or record the realtime tv channels from the VCR through the scart in on the DVD recorder then the picture is great. No macrovision problem. BBC1 coming into the VCR rf tuner passed to the VCR scart to the scart in on DVD recorder is fine.

If however I record BBC1 to VHS then play that VHS back the picture appears to have macrovision issue. All my tapes have the same problem including some I made decades ago although some start ok and then it gradually 'macrovisions out' after a few minutes. I can only conclude therefore (and please tell me if I'm wrong) that the Matsui VCR is just sticking macrovision on anything it plays back. Would that be logical?

So, following a few site searches I am seeing stuff about "video picture stabilizers". Would this do the job or am I just a stupid gadget junkie with no respect for my electric bill! and has anyone got any advice or a recommended product to overcome this problem? (Unless anyone happens to know a hack or have a flash update for an old matsui vcr! joke!)

So, postponing on question 2 for the mo, any macrovision advice or a recommendation for an alternative vcr without this problem would be really welcomed!

Thanks as always!

peck

To see if its a macrovision issue, then connect your VCR direct to your TV via SCART (nothing else in between), if the picture distortion is still there from a played video then its not macrovision, and may just be your VCR needing its heads cleaned.

If the distortion is not there then it looks like macrovision. Signal conditioners (and various other names) are now illegal in the UK, so I don't know where you could get one. Theres always t'internet....