[merged] Price increase

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004

It is sadly a fact of life that some people do have the attitude that because they are not being asked for an increase it does not bother them.
If you feel insulted, I apologise.
When I was notified of the new price levels in my last NTL bill, I thought, "Why am I being asked for £3 per month more? when the other two tiers are not ".
There are many who feel the same way.
In fact, when I contacted NTL all their response was " Well it was all done by the marketing dept, I too think they made an error, but the new prices come into effect in june "
No mention of the speed increases by the way, which imo happen when they happen, what NTL tell you in publications etc do not believe.
If people are quite happy to pay the increase for something in the future then good luck to them.
Me? I prefer things up front.
A little like paying £1.20 for a four pint carton of milk in your supermarket.
You go in the following day and it is £4.20, when you question the price they tell you " well in three months time it will be a six pint carton."
Taking the above scenario, would I be justified in thinking I am being fleeced?

All imo ofcourse.

I didn't see you posting about how unfair it was for the lower tier to increase by £3 per month last year when the two higher tiers didn't increase. Would you have thought it fairer to have only increased this by £1 and put the top two tiers up by £1 as well?

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Here is how I see it.

Example 1 - NTL, customer signs up to min 12 month contract, after 12 months contract is each month rolling on. Customer cant cancel within 12 months, so ntl if I am right can change the terms & conditions but not during the initial first 12 months, if they did do this then I think they were in the wrong, but I am not sure on this tho.

Example 2 - Credit card, they do things liek change interest rate etc. but if a customer has signed up to a set rate then it doesnt get messed with, not as far as I know anyway.

A prime example of contracts is where I work.
I am currently entitled to 22 days holiday plus bank holidays.
Any new employee can be taken on with a starting point of 20 days holiday including bank holidays.
To change my contract, they have to consult with me and the union.
Sorry to go off topic a bit, but just to highlight how I see it.

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Pem I wish you was a bit more open, and not be afraid to criticise when due, I know there are good points about the service but I am not afraid to criticse when its due and I dont believe you really think the service and the way its provided is 100%.

Um, if you think I do not criticise NTL [or anyone else] then you really need to read a few more of my posts - when someone/something needs criticising then I have no problem in doing it - and I have never said anywhere that NTL's service is 100% - it isn't - in some areas it doesn't even reach 10% (Luton's proxy servers are a prime example - they are pi$$ poor and the fact that NTL haven't sorted them out yet is a disgrace, they have been crap for ages) - but my overall experince of NTL (in Nottingham) is good - and I will continue to reflect this in my posts.

Originally Posted by ianathuth

I didn't see you posting about how unfair it was for the lower tier to increase by £3 per month last year when the two higher tiers didn't increase. Would you have thought it fairer to have only increased this by £1 and put the top two tiers up by £1 as well?

First of all IAN, I Wasn't here last year.
But to answer your question, yes it would be fairer imo.
I did say from the start that it would have been fairer to increase all speeds by £1 per month rather than one level getting hammered.
People I have spoken to at NTL have admitted there was one big **** up made by the marketing dept; but can they go back? no they cannot.
I was basically told the increases come in like it or lump it.
So, I have lumped it and stepped down a level on bb, and taken the movies and sports off my package.
If NTL want to lose more than the £3 per month they in their words, "made a mistake" that is up to them.
Me? I am very happy with the 600k to be increased at a later date.
Just dont confuse the speed increase with the price increase, the two are completely seperate.

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004

Sorry pem, as far as I know, NTL did not send me NEW TERMS AND CONDITIONS, which is why imo the ones I signed up to are relevant to me and other users who signed the same time as me or before.
The new conditions can only apply to people new to the service.

First off...they don't have to send them to you - there is what's called an implied contract, even if you didn't sign anything. If you did sign something, then you have agreed to a contract for 12 months only. If the terms of the contract (such as the price) changes within the 12 month period, you are entitled to quit the contract early.

EDIT: Sorry, should have mentioned at this point that if you signed the contract then you have agreed to be bound by the terms of the AUP - which is a separate document. I would imagine that if the terms of the AUP changed during your 12 month contract then you would also be able to cancel the agreement. END OF EDIT:

Second, what will happen in 5 years from now when (or if) the AUP has changed maybe once a year? You really expect a company to administer five different sets of rules? What about in 50 years from now?

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004

A little like your employment terms and conditions.
Your employer cannot change them without consultation with the workforce and union.

No, not like your employment contract at all...The two are totally different in law. One is to do with employment, one to do with the provision of goods and services under the sale of goods act.

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004

Why else would NTL not be willing to back up their threat of taking further action against people who go over the limit?
I am totally miffed by their approach really.
I think they are at a crossroads, they are happy just to send a letter out here and there hoping it will change people's habits, knowing full well that they cannot legally enforce their NEW rule on older accounts.
And while the situation is as it is, they dont have to increase capacity to deal with demand.

I don't think going over old ground about the cap on this thread is relevant. This thread is about price increases, the price and speed increases don't really have any relevance on the cap, apart from the fact that soon every BB customer will be able to hit their theoretical limit quicker.

I know it's a swine when the prices go up - I understand that - having been with that lot for the last 9 years, my prices have risen astronomically before, but before I've never got anything better for it. At least on this occasion there is some solace in the fact that you can get some extra bandwidth for your money - or pocket the money and take a small hit on the size of your bandwidth.

Originally Posted by andygrif

First off...they don't have to send them to you - there is what's called an implied contract, even if you didn't sign anything. If you did sign something, then you have agreed to a contract for 12 months only. If the terms of the contract (such as the price) changes within the 12 month period, you are entitled to quit the contract early.

Second, what will happen in 5 years from now when (or if) the AUP has changed maybe once a year? You really expect a company to administer five different sets of rules? What about in 50 years from now?




No, not like your employment contract at all...The two are totally different in law. One is to do with employment, one to do with the provision of goods and services under the sale of goods act.



I don't think going over old ground about the cap on this thread is relevant. This thread is about price increases, the price and speed increases don't really have any relevance on the cap, apart from the fact that soon every BB customer will be able to hit their theoretical limit quicker.

I know it's a swine when the prices go up - I understand that - having been with that lot for the last 9 years, my prices have risen astronomically before, but before I've never got anything better for it. At least on this occasion there is some solace in the fact that you can get some extra bandwidth for your money - or pocket the money and take a small hit on the size of your bandwidth.

Andygrif, I happen to think that the cap is relevant, as do many people.
And sadly, a contract is a contract, if it says unlimited it is that, unlimited.
If I want to break the, oops lets not talk about that word " CAP ", and NTL wish to persue the matter in the courts then let them try it.
I signed the contract for a minimum of 12 months, that contract is rolling, and I can cancel it within 30 days notice if I choose.
They do have to send you a new contract if they have changed any of the conditions of that contract.
What happens in 50 years time? I probably wont be here.
But if they change the terms and conditions I have to agree to them, as it is, I have not been sent or asked to agree to a new contract.

[Chrysalis]

ianathuth yes last year was unfair as well then, I signed upto ntl in august last year so probably wasnt around when the bottom tier went up in price, but that was unfair as well.

Pem ok thats cool

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004

Andygrif, I happen to think that the cap is relevant, as do many people.
And sadly, a contract is a contract, if it says unlimited it is that, unlimited.
If I want to break the, oops lets not talk about that word " CAP ", and NTL wish to persue the matter in the courts then let them try it.
I signed the contract for a minimum of 12 months, that contract is rolling, and I can cancel it within 30 days notice if I choose.
They do have to send you a new contract if they have changed any of the conditions of that contract.
What happens in 50 years time? I probably wont be here.
But if they change the terms and conditions I have to agree to them, as it is, I have not been sent or asked to agree to a new contract.

I don't really have much to add...apart from the fact that the contract is assumed as you are using the service...this is a point of law. If the terms of contract are changed you have a right to cancel, in the same way as you do once the minimum term of the contract has passed.

For the record, I don't mind talking about the cap...it's a relevant subject, but it's not relevant to the price increase.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004

Youre the one who mentioned metered water, not me.

Found it - You mentioned it first...

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...&postcount=543

If the water board say to you that you have unlimited use of your taps, it doesnt mean they can then moan if you leave a sprinkler connected 24/7.

Originally Posted by SMHarman

Found it - You mentioned it first...

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...&postcount=543

If the water board say to you that you have unlimited use of your taps, it doesnt mean they can then moan if you leave a sprinkler connected 24/7.

And what is wrong in what I said?
In addition to what I said about the water board, NTL touted broadband as unlimited, somebody tell me they did not, and I could find you somebody who will argue the opposite.
So, given that the service is UNLIMITED, how can NTL have the gall to then complain that people are being greedy?
They have only themselves to blame.
As I have stated before, the only way to deal with the matter is to increase capacity, which is not only my opinion, not now turn around to people and say "Can you keep your downloads to 1gb per day on your unlimited connection"
Does sound confusing doesnt it? a bit like your local pub offering unlimited pints of beer then moaning that not enough customers can get near the bar.
It is a blatant cheek on the part of NTL imo, and the sooner they actually do have the bottle to take someone to court for exceeding their unlimited use, the sooner their game, NTL,will be up.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004

And what is wrong in what I said?
In addition to what I said about the water board, NTL touted broadband as unlimited, somebody tell me they did not, and I could find you somebody who will argue the opposite.
<snip>

Nothing is wrong with what you said. i'm jus pointing out the inconsistency in what you said when you said...

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004

Youre the one who mentioned metered water, not me.
<snip>

The water analagy is becoming quite a good one IMHO.

A question. How does the guidance limit affect your usage of the internet. Do you ignore it and hope nothing happens, do you curtail your use, or do you find it generally has no impact.

I'm the latter of the three choices.

Originally Posted by SMHarman

Nothing is wrong with what you said. i'm jus pointing out the inconsistency in what you said when you said...



The water analagy is becoming quite a good one IMHO.

A question. How does the guidance limit affect your usage of the internet. Do you ignore it and hope nothing happens, do you curtail your use, or do you find it generally has no impact.

I'm the latter of the three choices.

Ok, I mentioned the water, but as you agreed it is becoming a good one.
Now, how does the limit, ( another word for cap ) affect my usage?
To be honest, it doesnt, because I get nowhere near the 1gb per day or 30 gb per month, because as I mentioned earlier I do not use the bb for downloading music, not that big a lover of compressed music.
If I wanted to exceed the limit? I would ignore it and just see what happens.
Would be interesting to see what would happen if someone did ignore the letters by NTL.
Now, must go fill the kettle with my unlimited water and make my cuppa before bed, have to start work at 5.30 in morning.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004

And what is wrong in what I said?
In addition to what I said about the water board, NTL touted broadband as unlimited, somebody tell me they did not, and I could find you somebody who will argue the opposite.
So, given that the service is UNLIMITED, how can NTL have the gall to then complain that people are being greedy?
They have only themselves to blame.
As I have stated before, the only way to deal with the matter is to increase capacity, which is not only my opinion, not now turn around to people and say "Can you keep your downloads to 1gb per day on your unlimited connection"
Does sound confusing doesnt it? a bit like your local pub offering unlimited pints of beer then moaning that not enough customers can get near the bar.
It is a blatant cheek on the part of NTL imo, and the sooner they actually do have the bottle to take someone to court for exceeding their unlimited use, the sooner their game, NTL,will be up.

Although NTL said that the service is unlimited they also said that users must not use their connections in a manner that affects other users enjoyment of the service (or words to that effect). Very hard not to affect other users even if you stay within the guidelines.

NTL would never take anyone to court for exceeding the guidelines for the simple reason that they would just remove your service if they thought that you was being unreasonable and refused to adjust your behaviour.

[Nikko]

I have been away from this thread since lunchtime for several hours, due to work commitments.

On my return, I see nothing really has been added except lots of threads from one persistently onerous user who despite the volume and frequency of posts has contributed nothing fresh or remotely interesting whatsoever.

Under the TOC of this site I would not name any individual or be seen to pick on anyone who is intellectually challenged, but if you think it might be you and have a guilty feeling, do as you suggested yourself 3 pages back and stop posting - it really is boring.

Everyone else, have a lovely evening.

[Chrysalis]

On the subject again of ntl changing the t&c I am fairly sure now that I am right.

Wannadoo recently moved to metered packages but all their current customers are not affected, it only applies to new customers.

If you are on a 12month contract then the contract that was in place when you signed up applies to you for the 12months, then after the initial 12 months the new t&c would take affect, so if ntl did try to boot someone of the service, who signed up before the t&c was changed and then broke the new t&c within their original 12 months ntl would be breaking the law.